cap_ironman | With a slashy cover like that? I think it's relevant.

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With a slashy cover like that? I think it's relevant.

Geez, I feel so lame for making THIS my first contribution to the community. ANYWAYS...

I was perusing the Marvel site, getting together the checklist of comics I needed to go out and buy today, and an article describing a new "What If?" comic coming out in December caught my eye.

Fallen Son: Mourning Iron Man
On December 10, Iron Man will die.

Before you fly into a panic, Golden Gladiator fans, know this: it happens in the alternate world of WHAT IF? FALLEN SON #1.

This alternate take on the limited series from which it draws its name swaps Captain America's death for that of his opposite number, Iron Man. As penned by Marc Sumerak with art by Trevor Goring, the one-shot unfolds over the course of the first few days following the founding Avenger's demise, delving into the psychological effects of Tony Stark's death on a Marvel Universe that has already been ravaged by the events of CIVIL WAR.

While Sumerak might be no stranger to the Marvel Universe, he has heretofore done the majority of his work on younger audience-flavored titles like the FRANKLIN RICHARDS or POWER PACK limited series. Despite the difference in tone between his previous work and FALLEN SON, the transition has proven no great hardship.

"Writing WHAT IF? FALLEN SON was definitely a change of pace for me," the writer acknowledges. "The story's somber tone and heavy subject matter were a big step away from the light-hearted, humorous tales I normally get to tell. But, it wasn't nearly as hard as you might imagine to shift those gears. It was just a matter of tapping into what I've always loved about these characters and trying to get that onto the page in a way that the readers could connect with it."

Therefore, despite the death of a cornerstone of the Marvel Universe equaling grim business, Sumerak sees it as offering up a plethora of creative avenues to explore.

"While there's nothing fun about any character dying, it's always interesting to wonder what could have changed," admits Sumerak. "So many major events have surrounded Tony's life of late, it's only logical to think that his death could have brought on big changes as well.

"We will be exploring almost all of the major programs that Tony was spearheading at the time of his death—the Initiative, the Superhuman Registration Act, the Mighty Avengers, Stark Enterprises and more—and showing how his death immediately impacts those institutions and all of the people involved. The reactions of some of Tony's closest friends and allies may surprise you and may change the Marvel Universe in some very profound ways."

Sumerak seeks to ensure that those changes offer rich, complex scenarios worthy of the Marvel Universe, not just pat results. WHAT IF? FALLEN SON aims to challenge readers to draw their own conclusions about what constitutes right and wrong in this alternate universe in much the same way fans have been dissecting and debating the events of the mainstream Marvel U from CIVIL WAR through WORLD WAR HULK and SECRET INVASION.

"When writing the story, I definitely didn't set out to say, 'See? Tony was right all along! Cap's death had to happen!' Sumerak explain. "I simply wanted to explore how one simple change in the course of events could have altered the grand scheme of things. I think this story definitely shows that things would have been 'different,' but whether those differences are 'better' or 'worse' for the Marvel Universe might be a call that the readers need to make for themselves."

Much like the original FALLEN SON limited series ultimately rested on the shoulders of Iron Man, this one-shot uses Captain America as its focal point. However, the Sentinel of Liberty's grief shares the page with a multitude of familiar faces.

"Look for cast members from Mighty Avengers, New Avengers and the Initiative, as well as a number of other special guests," Sumerak teases.

Fans can enter a new era alongside Cap, the Mighty Avengers, and the rest of the Marvel Universe on December 10 by picking up WHAT IF? FALLEN SON #1, when it hits shelves.

And check out the wonderful cover!

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Tony was facing Steve in court, does that imply that in this reality, Tony went to Steve's trial, and took the bullet?

From the article and the art I've seen (the artist actually has a Deviantart account where I first saw everything) it seems, I guess, that instead of Steve ending up assassinated, Tony ends up being shot by an angry Cap supporter. I don't know if it's at the trial or if maybe it's somewhere elese?

Tony probably takes a date to a theatre, and gets shot.

Maybe. Though looking at the art they have in the article, it looks like Tony's there at Steve's trial and is then shot by an angry Cap supporter when he leaves the court house.

Nowhere near as metaphorical as the Lincoln scenario, but it gets things off to a quick start.

So he's there, over seeing stuff, then BOOM!

I guess Cap will have Sharon and the baby after all (remember, Sharon was pregnant with his kid, supposedly)?

Yeah, maybe. This whole "What If?" is like a fanficcer's dream with all the things to consider and wonder about.

Tony Stark is convergence in the Marvel U, like him or not. There would be ripples. Ooohhh. I think Cap, Pepper, Rhodey, Richards and Peter would be the few characters that would mourn him. Everyone else will come and quaff wine and drinks at the wake. Stark isn't religious, so I can't see him having a religious ceremony. Nor can I see him being buried in ice.

I guess Rhodey would take over Ironman - but Tony was the brains behind all that tech.

Hmmm... how many pages does this comic have? because in Fallen Son it was epic, like about six floppies in one trade.

Definitely ripples. Perhaps Reed or Hank would end up getting involved with the new Iron Man. Sure, Rhodey would probably take over the role, but like you said, Tony was the brains behind the technology so another brain has to step up in his place.

I don't know, but the article seems to imply it's going to be a mini series, since issue 1 comes out next month. Though how many parts it'll have, I don't know. It'd be neat if they did the whole stages of grief element again, but I'm not sure it would work for Tony's death so much since he is nowhere near as well-liked or loved as Steve was.

I guess no more than 5 parts. I don't think people are going to be going through the 5 stages of grief though. It might be stages relating to tech, like: obsolescence, ubiquitousness of something along those lines.

but I'm not sure it would work for Tony's death so much since he is nowhere near as well-liked or loved as Steve was..

Agreed. I guess they'll close down Stark Tower, move some stuff. Steve, Pepper, Rhodey and a select few will have a ceremony of rememberance.

Oy, I cannot wait for the trades, so I'll be collecting this series. Damn it.

I will too. And then by the trade paperback when it comes out to look nice on my bookshelf.

I am such a consumer whore sometimes.

...but while there are fanatics on all sides, there tends to be less fanatics on the democrat side...

...and I just really like the idea of Tony taking the bullet meant for Steve.

...and hey, that makes more sense anyways. Didn't Red Skull give Cap a blood transfusion once, cause he was one of those villains who are really fixated on their heroes? It'll make more evil sense if he shot Tony to make Steve angst, instead of outright killing Steve.

Yeah, I was thinking up scenarios in my head (because they already did the Tony-dies-because-of-Extremis one, so I guess they wouldn't be using that), and that is one of the most plausible ones. And it would be so cruel! But also kinda amazing, if Tony has to die let him die confessing his love for Cap!

*shots fired*
T: *shielding Cap's body with his own*
S: TONY!
T: S-Steve... I'm sorry... I... I...
S: Tony! T_T What? You what?
T: I... I think I left the gas on...
S: ...
T: *dies in Steve's arms*
S: NOOOOOO!
Avengers Towers: *explodes because of the gas*
Avengers: *on the run because of the Registration Act AND the Avengers Tower is no more*

....

I might be a little drunk.

Either:

1. In battle
2. En route, Tony on his way to somewhere.

I guess Tony will be thinking about his mortality (Stark seems to always do that) and then - death.

I cannot see Stark and Steve reconciling before his death, that's why it will be so poignant. The woulda, coulda shouldas will eat at Steve like acid.

I hope the art is good though. Dammit.

Would be interesting if we got a sort of Confession only with Steve talking to Tony's body.

Would be interesting if we got a sort of Confession only with Steve talking to Tony's body.

The thing is, Steve is such a good soldier though. He knows the whole chin up, shoulders square, stiff upper lip vibe from WWII. He'll probably want to be alone, and say how Tony was his best friend (I know that Tony considered Steve his best friend), and ... *manly sniffles*

You aren't going to get Tony Stark levels of emotion on this one.

I really should be in bed.

You aren't going to get Tony Stark levels of emotion on this one.
That was my point. We could see the other side of the coin, I would so love a couple of panels mirroring The Confession with just their role reversed, and Steve saying nothing.

I'd hope Steve would have the space to do it alone, but I can see him clinging to Sharon, who'll have some sort of effed up guilt (she was brainwashed to fall in love with him, and betrayed Steve on certain levels), which either might draw them closer, or push them further apart.

This better be good, or else... someone here will be writing fanfic. I keep threatening everyone with bad fanfic... talk me down, somebody.

*has a crack mental imagery of the empty suit resting a hand on Steve's shoulder*

That would be quite creepy, actually.

It saw how much Cap loves the shield and it wants in.

LOL!

...and then droid!Tony(he had a backup made of his ~~katra~~ consciousness in case he kicks the bucket), stomps in, and is like, "you hypocrite!", prompting Steve to go, 0_0'

The armor at this point, grabs Steve, "you've never loved me", and there is a ~~cat~~ robot ~~war~~ fight.

Whatever the heck happens to the armor, in the end, Steve would ended up having to double date with Wanda and The Vision while Clint and Peter watches on In Horror. Reed and Hank might be envious, of Tony, who doesn't have to sleep now and will get to geek way more.

Okay, of the whole thing? This:
Reed and Hank might be envious, of Tony, who doesn't have to sleep now and will get to geek way more.
was THE BEST PART!

:D

I would wibble and cry all over again if that happened.

Once I got past the shock of seeing Steve Rogers cry. And like

jazzypom said, it probably wouldn't be on the same level as Tony's breakdown.

Immediately afterwards, they moved Steve to a nicer cell and left him alone. The guards couldn't look him in the eyes. They've toweled him off but there's still blood in the crannies of the fishmail.

Steve had been so convinced that Tony was entirely gone, back inside the court, and he had been grieving, fuming at the shell of his friend who was speaking against him. Tony trailing behind him as they descended the steps, was like another weight on his chain.

Tony's hand on his shoulder was like a vise, before it was gone.

So many things was on the tip of his tongue, in the last moment, after the shot was fire. ...and it was Tony who had the last words.

"You mean a lot to me"

And that was all that was said.

T_T

Or, you know, something like:

T: "It wasn't worth it. *touches Steve's chest, leaving smudges of his own blood* But this is."

That would totally break me! T_T T_T

Cause dying? Totally worth it if you get to die in Steve Roger's arms! < / Insane Tony Logic >

Well, as far as it's Insane Tony Logic, dying instead of/to save Steve is always totally worth it.

The ol' MUST.SAVE.STEVE. imperative.

I was more thinking of, insane tony logic thinking, that fighting with Steve wasn't worth it, but dying in itself was worth being in Steve's arms.

Oh, yes of course. Insane Tony Logic goes both ways. He has few imperatives, and they're all self-destructing! DDD: TONY YOU IDIOT!

Cause of Death (COD):Since they were drawing parallels to the American Civil War, will Tony Stark go out like Lincoln? He takes a date to the theatre, then gets shot in the head? But instead of by a member of the KKK, it will be by a member of someone anti reg?

Cast of Characters: reactions?

Steve: will miss Tony. Does he do a Stark and cry? Or will he turn to Sharon and sex the hurt away?
Carol: Ditto
Peter: Yeah, even though he and Tony fell out towards the end
Logan: I can't see him comforting anyone.
Pepper: Tears - but will Happy be alive in this imagining? Or will it be her and Rhodey.
Rhodey: Will miss Tony. I'm sure he'll say a word or two.
Sam (Falcon): Won't miss Stark, and might probably chastise Cap for still thinking so highly of him.
Henry Hellrung: won't even have gotten a call, so The Order wouldn't have been formed.
Jennifer: Tony did sleep with her after he blasted Hulk into space, and she was going to sue him, so... *whistles*. Her reactions should be interesting.
Spiderwoman (Jessica): Tony and herself had a falling out, so I can't see her being cut up over his death.
Reed Richards: Yeah, he'd be cut up, because he's lost an equal (or almost equal).

Anyone else?
The Illuminati: Will they apply the Icarus metaphor to Tony? As in, he flew so far, too close to the sun and melted? Or will they compare him to Alexander, as in, "Tony took a look at the world, and seeing that there was nothing else to conquer, he wept." (I'm sticking to Greek and Roman history, since that's what Civil War was going off on).
I know Namor will have words (never liked Stark), T'challa might say, "Good."

Logan: *shrugs*, *opens a beer*

I know that Logan was more support for Spiderman still, and threatened to tear Stark a new arsehole if he was behind the killing of Captain America (I guess he and Cap have known each other off and on for around 60 years?). So yeah, I can't imagine Logan getting out the good weeds.

Emma might go, since she and Stark were shag buddies once upon a time.

Oooh. Can't wait.

There's also the issue of his company and finances to think about. Who takes over Stark International (or whatever the hell it was called during that era... it changes so much I can't always remember). Would the 50 State Initiative still go ahead and with whose funding?

Wow... all these personal relationship theorizing and I think about finances... ugh.

I can't see it going ahead, or if it did, it wouldn't be so big. Stark Industries? Good point, Tony doesn't have any relatives, no?

I wouldn't have gotten to meet Henry Hellrung (http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Henry_Hellrung_(Earth-616)).

Well... I wouldn't put it past Marvel to say, "Surprise! He has a bastard child who will now take everything over!" though that'd be REALLY shoddy writing.

Well... I wouldn't put it past Marvel to say, "Surprise! He has a bastard child who will now take everything over!" though that'd be REALLY shoddy writing.

Yes, that would be. Especially since if you're a head of a Fortune 500 company, you basically raise your child in the life. You wean them on stocks, figures, bottom line. You send them to the best schools, with the right people, you take them to meetings with you so that they can talk to Kings, and not lose the common touch with the heads.

There's a reason why heads of Fortune 500 companies build dynasties and do not have bastards. This is why.

It could have been a planned bastard child, there are quite a few independent women these days, who might want a child without getting married. Former Canadian PM, Pierre Elliot Trudeau, had fathered the daughter of Deborah Coyne, in such an arrangement (they will never stay together, she wanted a child of with his genes which she will raise).

Don't see how he could have hid it from the other Avengers...but it's possible that he did it before he realise how dangerous the superhero life would be and cut off contact. It's also possible that he did it BEFORE Afghanistan, when he suspect that he might never marry or died young, and here's a very flattering proposal from a woman who he knows will be a good mother.

Tony's too much of a control freak for us not to know, though. I could see him thinking he'd be a bad father and so make arrangements with some independent woman like that, but he'd want regular progress reports and would at least consult on things like schools and such.

That would be soap operaish.

...but it's possible that he did it before he realise how dangerous the superhero life would be and cut off contact. It's also possible that he did it BEFORE Afghanistan, when he suspect that he might never marry or died young, and here's a very flattering proposal from a woman who he knows will be a good mother.

And the child would just waltz in and assume command of SI? I can't see that happening.

They'll have to be ethical and capable.

...if Stark doesn't have any relative left...what about Meredith McCall? They were together in college before their parents broke them up due to company rivalry. If Tony's parents are watching in the afterlife though, I'll bet that they REALLY regret it now, considering Tony's many OTHER much more harmful love interests.

If Stark and McCall were rivals, they were probably in similar business.

Ditto for Rumiko Fujikawa's family. Her father seems like one of those Lesser Evil rivals, having only brought the company legitimately when Tony Stark was apparently dead. Her father also conceded to Rumiko's wish and sold Tony 49% of the company back. He also raised Rumiko, who was alright, she cheated on him, but cheating is unfortunately a common sin, and she felt badly about it.

Both McCall and Fujikawa could have been linked to Stark by marriage and some point in time, so it makes sense.

why not "tony transfering personality via extremis to the main-computer of StarkIndustries" (before or after confessing his undying love for cap..)???

I mean there HAS to be some kind of back-up plan... you talking about TONY STARK... controlfreak extraordinaire.. he wouldn´t take a chance with something like suddenly dying... would he?

ooooooh... i HAVE to have THAT issue. It sounds certainly interesting what with the whole "let the reader decide if it´s better or not" thing ~supposedly~ going on.

I for one would LOVE a story arc where tony is surprisingly NOT the ass... (and in this what if he´s dead... NOBODY talks bad about dead people ~YAY~)

Tony is one of the major player in the game... so YES his death would be felt by many, i think .. (I can see a happy spider dancing in the streets ö.ö") Would they (the writers) let Sharon become even more Mary-sue? Will Cap cry?

AArgh... Great.. now i have to fly over there just to get a COMIC ^____^ ... new york ich komme

~sorry, seriously sleep deprieved here..

(and in this what if he´s dead... NOBODY talks bad about dead people ~YAY~)

You'd be surprised. There was a lot of glee from certain areas of the internet when Jessie Helms bit the dust, for example. Not that he and Stark are particularly comparable, just saying that being dead isn't going to protect you from people who hate your guts.

In Marvel’s latest WHAT IF? special, Iron Man takes the bullet that felled Captain America—we get the score from Marc Sumerak

Based on that, at least, it looks like that Tony gets in the way of the sharpshooter. I don't think it would do justice to the character is he was shot by a Cap groupie or in a Lincolnesque way. I mean the guys only died for Steve what, four times by now? If he doesn't die by saving Steve from the sharpshooter, I don't think it would fit the character we've come to know.

Now that you put it that way. Oh, Stark.

Well, it's something to look forward to from Marvel. Yay?

If you can call the death of another favorite character something to look foreward to >>;
But I wonder then, if Tony does that, does Sharon still shoot Steve? Or is it that bullet that Tony takes?
~~i haven't been able to bring myself to read Fallen Son: The Death of Captian America, or ANYTHING of Civil War.... so i don't really know what happens when Steve dies ;_;~~

;_; damn you, Marvel.

You really really should read all of the Civil War stuff. If Watchmen was the comic that made me love comics in general, Civil War was what got me to finally take the plunge and get into Marvel comics.

And Fallen Son... man, that really hit home for me. I WEPT (it was awesome).

I mean, it will be richer if you do. Especially when Tony Stark gives his send off to Steve before he casts him to the deep.

It'll be interesting if they really run with it. Tony's not well-liked in Marvel at this point in the continuity (not that he's gotten more popular since), but he's either running or is the power behind so many operations that there's a lot that'd start falling apart without him. And for all his flaws, he brings down all that on himself because he wants to do the right thing.

So, especially if he actually takes a bullet for Steve (ohpleaseohplease), it could be interesting to play with all that, and to see a hero essentially martyred and barely mourned. And then there's the angle that he's been self-destructive for a long time, and this is kind of like suicide without the guilt.

Ooooh, agreed. On all counts. I think it would be a really wise choice for Marvel to go that route, especially with the immense amount of guilt and grief Steve would have under that scenario (where he is mourning, but others around him are reluctant to do so for multiple reasons).

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

With a slashy cover like that? I think it's relevant.

I wonder how?

Re: I wonder how?

If it's Civil War they might do a Lincoln

Re: If it's Civil War they might do a Lincoln

Even better

Re: Even better

This.

Re: This.

Oh zeen. I thought it would be a mini

Re: Oh zeen. I thought it would be a mini

Re: If it's Civil War they might do a Lincoln

Re: I wonder how?

I think it will be sudden

Re: I think it will be sudden

Oh, yes plz!

Re: Oh, yes plz!

Oh, that would be lovely

Re: Oh, that would be lovely

Re: Oh, that would be lovely

Re: Oh, that would be lovely

Re: Oh, that would be lovely

Re: Oh, that would be lovely

Re: Oh, that would be lovely

Re: I think it will be sudden

In before it gets Jossed

Re: In before it gets Jossed

Re: In before it gets Jossed

Re: In before it gets Jossed

Re: In before it gets Jossed

Re: In before it gets Jossed

Re: In before it gets Jossed

: Predicitions COD and reactions from various people

Re: : Predicitions COD and reactions from various people

LOL!

Re: : Predicitions COD and reactions from various people

50 State Initiative

Re: 50 State Initiative

Ugh.

re: bastard child

Re: bastard child

True

Stark successors

Re: : Predicitions COD and reactions from various people

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True dat

Re: True dat

Re: True dat

You might want to read Fallen son, at least?

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