Muccamukk (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
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cap_ironman2010-06-05 10:13 pm
muccamukk) wrote in cap_ironman2010-06-05 10:13 pm
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Concrit: What Is It?
This is not a mod post declaring what the comm policy on concrit Shall Be From Now On. As far as our rules go, the only mention of commenting policy is from the comm's info:
(Note: if you feel that the immediate answer to that last is "call your team leader a 'low-life mercenary' and punch him in the face,"* you may wish to pause and reflect some more before posting).
However, I do think that this is an interesting topic for our comm to discuss. Though this topic does the rounds on metafandom about once a year, there hasn't been a lot of talk about comm policy on it, what the open exchange of concrit might do to the feel or environment of a comm, or, often (once the debates get sidetracked into the issue of the week) what concrit even is. And, hey, rehashing metafandom is a fandom tradition, it's why there is a metafandom.
So I mean it more in the spirit of![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
valtyr's Role of the Beta post.
Why Do You Want Concrit?
Constructive criticism is pretty much what it says on the tin. The most common place to get it is from your beta reader. Ze will read your story/look at your art and point out the areas that worked for hir and the ones that didn't. Ze will often suggest changes that might be made before posting, then look again to see how those worked out in implementation, and make further notes about tweaks. If you have a beta reader, you've probably already learned about concrit and how to deal with it.
"So," you say, "I already have a beta, why do a need concrit from random people on the Internet?"
To which I would reply, "The purpose of fandom is sharing ideas. We write stories/draw pictures/splice vids because we want to say something to other people who love the same things we do (or to convince random people on our flist to love those things too). Wouldn't it be better, if when the people you're trying to talk to don't get what you're trying to communicate they tell you so, instead of just pressing the back button and moving on?"
You have an opportunity to explain your viewpoint directly to your beta, so that ze can better understand what you meant to write/draw in your head, but all the rest of us have is what's on the screen in front of us. Concrit is a way for me, as the audience, to express that I got that there's a great idea happening, and highlight some of the ways that you, as the writer/artist, aren't getting the potential awesomeness of the idea across to me. In your next piece of writing or art you might decide to do things differently, so that more people will understand what you're trying to say about the things you love.
TL;DR: Concrit can provide an opportunity for you to grow as a writer and/or artist. Aside from that, even/especially when you don't agree with what the person offering concrit has said, I feel that it opens up room for disscussion of the fic in question that doesn't fit in with all the "OMG! YAY!"s that we all love to get. (Which, for me, is awesome, because, as anyone who chats with my on IM knows, I love talking about my fic.)
How to Give Concrit
You can poke around the metafandom links above for more details on the theory of this, but I think it comes down to a few simple rules:
How to Receive Concrit
Whether you've solicited it or not, at some point someone's going to give it to you. Here's some tips about what to do.
Things That Are NOT Concrit That I Still Want to Talk About
Flames: Flames are intended to cause the flamee emotional harm and/or to make the flamer look superior. They actually make the flamer look like a complete and utter git, and will lead to modly intervention. Do not do this. I am not joking.
Pointing out typos: Everyone loves getting those little things out of the way before too many people see them. I generally don't ask before I mention them.
Critical Reviews: Concrit is intended for the author/artist, critical reviews are like movie reviews or me talking about comics on my DW every week; they're intended for other fans. They can be meta about what worked/didn't work in the story and why. They can be a commentary on tropes in the fandom and how they relate to the canon. They can be demented musing made at four am while under the influence of too many chocolate rum beans. Some larger fandoms have comms for such things. Marvel, at this point, does not. When I've seen them, I've seen them on personal blogs, often locked.
Intense Emotional Responses/Calling BS: (For lack of a better term). I'm keeping this separate from the general concrit section because it comes from a different place. Sometimes, it's not that the author/artist is unclear/ineffective at what ze is trying to say. Sometimes it's a case of the idea being communicated pissing you off. If this happens, you have two choices: you can tell the author/artist or not.
If you choose to tell the author, consider the points above, but also consider why you're angry/hurt/sad. My general rule (for making the choice to speak up), is whether the author/artist is making problematic generalisations/depictions of oppressed peoples. If it's a matter of a canon interpretation or bit of fanon that irritates me, I stay quiet. If I feel that the author/artist is perpetuating, racist/sexist/ablist/homophobic/etc tropes, I usually say something. I also usually consider my words very carefully, after thinking about it for a few days. Just to make sure I'm not flying off the handle. YMMV.
If you choose not to tell the author, but still feel upset, consider bitching to a trusted friend, who is not also a friend of the author/artist, via e-mail/chat. It helps. You're having a valid reaction to something, and it's good to debrief.
So? Thoughts, comments. Past relationships with concrit? Talk to me.
*See The Avengers Vol 1 #168 for details.
...we ask that you remember that opinions are just that - opinions. You don't have to like or agree with someone's opinion, but we ask that you respect it and the individual who put it forth. Respect and basic courtesy is not an optional aspect of our community; it's the foundation. When in doubt, just think: What would Steve Rogers do?
(Note: if you feel that the immediate answer to that last is "call your team leader a 'low-life mercenary' and punch him in the face,"* you may wish to pause and reflect some more before posting).
However, I do think that this is an interesting topic for our comm to discuss. Though this topic does the rounds on metafandom about once a year, there hasn't been a lot of talk about comm policy on it, what the open exchange of concrit might do to the feel or environment of a comm, or, often (once the debates get sidetracked into the issue of the week) what concrit even is. And, hey, rehashing metafandom is a fandom tradition, it's why there is a metafandom.
So I mean it more in the spirit of
valtyr's Role of the Beta post.Why Do You Want Concrit?
Constructive criticism is pretty much what it says on the tin. The most common place to get it is from your beta reader. Ze will read your story/look at your art and point out the areas that worked for hir and the ones that didn't. Ze will often suggest changes that might be made before posting, then look again to see how those worked out in implementation, and make further notes about tweaks. If you have a beta reader, you've probably already learned about concrit and how to deal with it.
"So," you say, "I already have a beta, why do a need concrit from random people on the Internet?"
To which I would reply, "The purpose of fandom is sharing ideas. We write stories/draw pictures/splice vids because we want to say something to other people who love the same things we do (or to convince random people on our flist to love those things too). Wouldn't it be better, if when the people you're trying to talk to don't get what you're trying to communicate they tell you so, instead of just pressing the back button and moving on?"
You have an opportunity to explain your viewpoint directly to your beta, so that ze can better understand what you meant to write/draw in your head, but all the rest of us have is what's on the screen in front of us. Concrit is a way for me, as the audience, to express that I got that there's a great idea happening, and highlight some of the ways that you, as the writer/artist, aren't getting the potential awesomeness of the idea across to me. In your next piece of writing or art you might decide to do things differently, so that more people will understand what you're trying to say about the things you love.
TL;DR: Concrit can provide an opportunity for you to grow as a writer and/or artist. Aside from that, even/especially when you don't agree with what the person offering concrit has said, I feel that it opens up room for disscussion of the fic in question that doesn't fit in with all the "OMG! YAY!"s that we all love to get. (Which, for me, is awesome, because, as anyone who chats with my on IM knows, I love talking about my fic.)
How to Give Concrit
You can poke around the metafandom links above for more details on the theory of this, but I think it comes down to a few simple rules:
- Make sure the author/artist wants it: I know people in fandom who get concrit from their beta readers, who they know and trust, and aren't interested in it from other sources. These people are, so far as I've known them, cool people. Not everyone wants concrit, and there's nothing wrong with that. If they don't include a policy in the header or at the end of the fic about concrit, you can ask. Leave a review talking about the parts of the story you liked and that worked for you, and ask if they want concrit. Alternately, send them a PM, asking the same thing. Leave contact information, in case they don't want to have the discussion in public. Concrit is for the author/artist, and, I feel, should be provided in the way they feel most comfortable with. If the author/artist wants it, go ahead. If not, move on.
- Talk about things that you liked: You know what works? Positive re-enforcement of behaviour you'd like to see repeated. Point out the bits that rocked your socks and say why.
- Use "I" statements: The author/artist will generally take on your comments more readily if you sound like you're having a conversation, rather than Proclaiming the Will of the Internet. Say, "I didn't understand why Steve decided go to Berlin when he did" rather than "Steve taking off for Europe in the middle of the fight made no sense!"
- Be clear and complete: I think the most useful summation of this that I've seen was made by stormwreath in regards to vidding over here.
- Reread before posting: Before you hit the post button, read over what you just said, then look at the relevant parts of the work you're commenting on again. Do not persist in seinding what you've written to the author because you just sunk an hour of time into writing it. Send it because you think it will be helpful. You may even want to save a draft of the comment and think about it a bit more. There's no hurry.
It isn't concrit unless it includes the word "because".
"I didn't like it" is criticism.
"I would have done it {this} way instead" is criticism.
BUT
"I didn't like it because there was too much talky-face in the first half" is constructive criticism.
"I would have done it {this} way instead, because then it would highlight the interaction between the two main characters instead of getting sidetracked with those other scenes" is constructive criticism.
One is just expressing a preference; the other is giving you reasons for that preference, that you can either accept or reject and go on to make a better vid.
Or to put it another way, if you get comments like my first two, respond as a 4-year old would: ask "Why?", and if they just say "because it would be better that way" keep on asking "Why?" until you get a proper answer. Or they hit you. :-)
(Note: Hitting people is the opposite of constructive, see the first aside.)
Also, it doesn't literally have to include the word "because"; you can use other words, but you should make why you liked or didn't like something clear.
How to Receive Concrit
Whether you've solicited it or not, at some point someone's going to give it to you. Here's some tips about what to do.
- Check your mood: Just after you've crashed from the caffeine high you had to maintain for seventy two hours in order to finish your 350k AU by the big bang's due date? Not a good time. After you've just had the shittiest day ar work in the History of the Universe, and capped it off with a fight with a family member? Also not a good time. Ditto dead family pets. If it's one of these times, set the comment aside to read later. If you read it anyway, go watch vids for a few hours and pretend it doesn't exist until you're in a better place to think about it.
- Read carefully: Read the comment a couple of times. Look at the parts of your work they talk about again. Think about it.
- Consider that the person offering concrit might be right: The commenter may be completely missing the mark, but they may also be pointing out an area you need to work on. Seriously, before you thank them and explain how they're wrong, think about it. Writing/creating art is a learning experience. Not being perfect at it all the time is not, in fact, the end of the world.
- Consider that the concrit might be wrong: Sometimes, the person offering the concrit wasn't paying attention and missed the bit that explained why the bit they didn't get happened. Sometimes they're in a lousy mood and just plan read something wrong, or don't get your style. Sometimes the person is just remarkably obtuse. It happens. Consider asking your beta what ze thinks, as a second opinion.
- Thank the commenter for hir time: If they're like me, they probably sank a lot into it. They did so because they wanted to help you. Whether or not it was actually helpful is beside the point.
- Ask for more details: If you don't get what the commenter is saying, ask them to clarify (see example in #4 on Giving Concrit). Poke them with a stick until they cough up a because.
Things That Are NOT Concrit That I Still Want to Talk About
Flames: Flames are intended to cause the flamee emotional harm and/or to make the flamer look superior. They actually make the flamer look like a complete and utter git, and will lead to modly intervention. Do not do this. I am not joking.
Pointing out typos: Everyone loves getting those little things out of the way before too many people see them. I generally don't ask before I mention them.
Critical Reviews: Concrit is intended for the author/artist, critical reviews are like movie reviews or me talking about comics on my DW every week; they're intended for other fans. They can be meta about what worked/didn't work in the story and why. They can be a commentary on tropes in the fandom and how they relate to the canon. They can be demented musing made at four am while under the influence of too many chocolate rum beans. Some larger fandoms have comms for such things. Marvel, at this point, does not. When I've seen them, I've seen them on personal blogs, often locked.
Intense Emotional Responses/Calling BS: (For lack of a better term). I'm keeping this separate from the general concrit section because it comes from a different place. Sometimes, it's not that the author/artist is unclear/ineffective at what ze is trying to say. Sometimes it's a case of the idea being communicated pissing you off. If this happens, you have two choices: you can tell the author/artist or not.
If you choose to tell the author, consider the points above, but also consider why you're angry/hurt/sad. My general rule (for making the choice to speak up), is whether the author/artist is making problematic generalisations/depictions of oppressed peoples. If it's a matter of a canon interpretation or bit of fanon that irritates me, I stay quiet. If I feel that the author/artist is perpetuating, racist/sexist/ablist/homophobic/etc tropes, I usually say something. I also usually consider my words very carefully, after thinking about it for a few days. Just to make sure I'm not flying off the handle. YMMV.
If you choose not to tell the author, but still feel upset, consider bitching to a trusted friend, who is not also a friend of the author/artist, via e-mail/chat. It helps. You're having a valid reaction to something, and it's good to debrief.
So? Thoughts, comments. Past relationships with concrit? Talk to me.
*See The Avengers Vol 1 #168 for details.