cap_ironman | Discussion Question Wednesday! #3: Gateway fic

So I figure I'd kick things off. I've told this story around the com before, but I might as well go again. XD

I couldn't find the first art I saw, but I remember seeing it and commenting to the artist saying it was pretty. Then I asked about the pairing, because I didn't really see how Tony Stark and Steve Rogers would fit together as friends, much less lovers, since they're kind of people I don't see connecting much. I'm not a comics reader, and this was before The Avengers movie actually came out, so I was working with the movies up to The First Avenger. I got a whole rant about the comics and how perfect they were for each other, but not a heck of a lot of actual reasons that made sense to me.

I think I must have posted something at that point, asking for an actual explanation cause I don't get ships at the best of times. Every so often I see a ship and am just like, wtf? These two have never even met yet or only have five seconds of screen time (here's looking at you, Clint/Coulson shippers) and I'm baffled, and I honestly just want to know what the appeal is. Not trying to attack the ships or anything, but I'm a gen writer with a morbid curiosity, and honestly I really have no bloody idea about how some of these ships come about.

Someone commented about the comics history to me, which made a lot more sense and I went about my life as normal. Solution found. Problem solved.

Then Bagheera did a prompt meme, which I prompted superheroes and "To a Mouse" by Robert Burns. I think I asked for Batman, but also said I'd take any one else as well. I got this fic: Justifying Ill Opinion. This is also the fic that got me into EMH, so it is good stuffs. It's gen fic, but it also gave me an opening into seeing how the relationship might work. Tony tries so hard (and fails hard) and in the end Cap knows this and accepts this. And it's a nice bridge since the friendship wasn't easy (at least not on Tony's end, poor dear), but they still end with a connection. After that, I started to read more Steve/Tony since it intrigued me. But really, I still love this silly little fic, and not just because it was written for me. <3

As for my own first fic, you can find it here.There's a lot of things in it that makes me cringe now, but it's also protest fic, and it's protest fic with a very strong response that was also very humbling. Sex positivity with positivity towards not having sex as well as having sex can be hard to come by. I'm very glad I wrote it, even if there's some things I wish I'd done better in it.

Your first fic needs a trigger warning, Mem. You know what for.

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dragonofmemory - 2014-05-15 13:48 (UTC) - Expand

I like this question.

I have no idea how I started out, actually. The whole thing started when I finally saw IM for the first time like...4 years after it was released, loved it, hopped on the Avengers bandwagon, and I think I vaguely had an idea that Tony and Steve (MCU) were paired together before I saw the movie, because I think I was into the thorloki stuff before and so I saw a few S/T recs here and there...first S/T fic I read was probably gyzym? Then I went through all the MCU fics until I couldn't stand to read MCU anymore.

I remember being totally weirded out that 616 Tony was so different than MCU Tony, looks + personality etc but then I discovered the angst

and it was all over

OMG okay I REMEMBER MY FIRST 616 IT WAS SINS OF OMISSION WHICH IS A TERRIBLE FIC TO START OUT WITH LOL BUT WOW IS IT GREAT
SOO was so cathartic to read, I remember, because I was having such a shitty time with life and then bam this fic and wow just wow so thankful for this author so thankful this fic was there. This fic apparently has a lot of trigger elements but it was the opposite for me, I felt purged.

So I guess what really, REALLY got me into fandom was Sins of Omission. I read the rest of the existing 616 while waiting for updates, lol.

I'm glad you approve. XD

Heh. I've heard of the Angst of SOO. I've also been told to stay far, far away from it due to said angst, because it's so good but so bad. XD I'm not that into the comics myself, so it's just one I decided that it's better for my sanity to stay away from. Glad to hear it did good things for you though! Fandom can be incredibly helpful like that. <3

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(Anonymous) - 2014-05-14 13:31 (UTC) - Expand

The first Steve/Tony fic I read was seanchai and elspethdixon's When the Lights Go On Again (http://cap-ironman.livejournal.com/177544.html). It's an epic story, it pushed so many of my fic buttons, and I loved the ensemble. I still go back and reread it occasionally.

I did really like that one. I think it was one of the first 616 fics I've read too. I need to go back and re-read it now that I know more about the characters. Cause while 616 doesn't really stick for me, I do still enjoy 616 fic on occasion.

Ahhhh that's one of my favorites, too. :-)

Ditto, seconded, thirded, fourthed. This was my first (or near-first) Steve/Tony fic and it will ALWAYS remain one of my favorite stories of all time. Not even of fic, but just, stories, in general. I re-read it like once a year, I love it so much. I even tried to capture some of the epic plot-ness of it when I wrote America Isn't Chicken. Like, it's such an epic, AMAZING fic, it's inspired me to push the boundaries of what I can do with fic. Cannot recommend it enough.

My path into the pairing went something like this:

*sees first Iron Man movie*

Wow, that was awesome! Let's see if there's a fandom.

*reads all the movie fanfic*

Okay, that was awesome too, but I want more. There must be more, right?

*finds cap_ironman comm*

Wait, people are shipping Iron Man with Captain America? Why would they do that?

*gets subscription to Marvel Digital, reads a bunch of back issues*

Okay, never mind, I see why they do that. Bring on more fic!

*Reads Resurrection, Reconstruction and Redemption" (http://elspethdixon.livejournal.com/153354.html)*

Okay, sold, this is my pairing now.

I'm not sure if RR&R was the first Steve/Tony fic I read, as I was kind of on a binge and reading everything in sight, but it was definitely the first one that stuck with me and sold me on the pairing.

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who wondered why the hell people would ship them. Pre-Avengers, unless you knew the comics, none of that made sense. XD But then, pairings in general can completely baffle me on good days, so sometimes I wonder if it's just me.

I think I remember starting to read RRR, but ended up getting turned off all things Civil War at about that time. As someone who doesn't read the comics (I'm sure they're lovely and have a lot of history, but I like the characters to have endings, be it happily ever afters or forever alone. I just want closure for the characters and I get bored with tv shows that go on for more than a few years, much less comics that go on for 50 some odd years and still going), there's only so much Civil War stuff I can take before I hear all the rants I've seen in fandom about terrible characterization/writing in it. ^.^;;;

It seems like a pretty good fic though, from what I've heard. And hooking people into a ship is always a good thing for a fic to do. <3

Since I started with When the Lights Go On Again, I think RRR was the second Steve/Tony fic I read! I'm waiting for everything to get entirely tied up and done in the series, and then I'm doing an epic reread.

I feel a little silly about it now, but I had a bit of a false start when it came to Steve and Tony.

I didn't really start reading fic for any Marvel thing until after the Avengers movie came out; I'd liked the other movies, but I hadn't really been struck with the urge to look for stories about them. Then the movie came out, and I finally started poking around for things to read. My first viewing of the movie left me full of Tony feels but no direction, so I read a little bit of everything (Steve/Tony included). Nothing really hooked me, though, so I wandered off again pretty soon.

Then I saw Avengers again (I think when it went to DVD/Blu-ray); since I'd already worked out some of my flash Tony feels, I was able to focus in on the rest of the story, and got sucker punched by Steve feels so hard I nearly cried. (Due to family drama, I didn't get to see the Cap movie until right before going to see Avengers, so I don't think it'd had time to properly process the first time.)

I've been falling down that particular rabbit hole ever since.

So I needed fic to help me process, and by that point it had been long enough that there were some really nice lengthy stories out (long stories are my favorite, even though I can't write them). The two earliest that I remember, that really stuck with me, were Tomorrow Belongs To Me by valtyr and Even the Light is an Illusion by Mizzy (this is the one that got me curious about the comics and comics canon, as it blends that with the movie-verse I was already familiar with).

The first fic I wrote (and finished; there's technically one in-progress that I started before) would probably be this one: http://archiveofourown.org/works/1030209 (http://archiveofourown.org/works/1030209)

(Hopefully that link works...)

I saw an advertisement about the Marvel Bang on this community, and signed up just to try it (I'd been wanting to write something for a while before that). I haven't written a lot of things for them yet, but I'm hoping to add more eventually.

Heh. As long as you find your way home again eventually, false starts just lead to more adventuring.

The link does work. And I remember liking that one. <3

I don't remember how I ended up on the com, to be honest. I think I was just looking for more fic to continue my research into Steve/Tony and my quest to understand baffling ships. XD BBs are a good way to get into a community though, since it's a lot of interaction from everyone involved.

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cameron-mckell.livejournal.com - 2014-05-14 16:17 (UTC) - Expand

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dragonofmemory - 2014-05-15 01:01 (UTC) - Expand

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green-grrl.livejournal.com - 2014-05-14 12:58 (UTC) - Expand

Okay, SO everyone in chat knows that I am sadly unacquainted with as much fic as I should be.

I've been reading the comics on & off for years and years, and had seen most (not all) of the MCU movies, but never got into the fandom-- my main fandom things were Harry Potter and historical fantasy roleplay. I really never wrote much more than flashfic and I didn't read fic at alllll.

Anyway, last spring one of my bffs was here visiting me and she asked me to help her brainstorm the Steve/Tony fic she was writing. I ended up brainstorming with her all through lunch and then a bit after, and then I did a lot of betaing for her. I honestly think it was the first time I'd ever read a fic longer than, like, 5 or 6k in any fandom, ever.

Two's a Crowd (http://archiveofourown.org/works/772207/chapters/1449615).

So that was only, uh, summer of last year?

Yeah. Summer of last year.

rainproof is a terrible influence.

Edited 2014-05-14 05:40 (UTC)

Actually, it sounds like rainproof is an awesome influence. XD Don't worry though. It's never too late to catch up on all the good fics, and there's plenty of rec lists out there. This com also has rec week, which has a lot of the good stuff.

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teaberryblue.livejournal.com - 2014-05-14 11:42 (UTC) - Expand

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dragonofmemory - 2014-05-14 13:06 (UTC) - Expand

The first Steve/Tony fic I ever read was Steve Likes Tony, by Resonant: http://archiveofourown.org/works/315613

I'd seen Iron Man, but I didn't even know who Steve Rogers was at the time I read it. I just knew that I'd enjoyed Resonant's work in other fandoms and decided to give it a shot. And it was an enjoyable story, and then I think I read her Exactly the Way You Like It, which was pretty hot.

Then it gets blurry, but I think maybe I did some searching around and found the ship manifesto and the slashy moments list, with scans from the comics. I got my heart broken by learning about Civil War, and then I read a bunch of fix-it fics for comics I'd never even read. I was basically super into the pairing by the time the Avengers came out, and loving both the new MCU fic coming out after the movie, plus all the great 616 fic I was finding on old rec lists. I bought my first comic that May, and wow, it's amazing how many comics (and fics!) I've read in two year's time.

And now I get to have my heart broken all over again by a new Marvel event, at that slow, excruciating, month-by-month pace. Yay?

Heh. I don't think I've read that one. I'll have to give it a shot when I'm not in the middle of moving/dealing with communist governments that adore bureaucracy way more than it should.

The current event does seem to be creating a lot of angst. XD I'm not into the comics, but I get to hear quite a lot about them. Salma said she might make a reaction post for it once the comics hit, so be on the look out for that if you're looking for a place to flail with others.

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green-grrl.livejournal.com - 2014-05-14 13:02 (UTC) - Expand

Well, I'd been a Marvel fan and an Avengers fan (on and off) since almost the very beginning (somewhere I have an unbroken run of Avengers from #1-#150(?) - haven't checked) bought off-stand. However, I hadn't read anything much in Marvel since Disassembled (the reports/reviews I was seeing did not engage me) when the Iron Man movie came out I was shocked and delighted by how good it was and very excited about the Avengers hints in the stinger.

However, I was on gafiation from fandom in general at the time and didn't follow up on fan fic but just kept watching the movies.

Then I found AO3, started putting some of my old fic on site and then started simply scrolling through incoming fic - this was in, oh, late 2011, when that was still just about possible. Within a short time I came across a fic with this summary...

Steve wakes up in the 21st Century. He doesn't think much of it, and it's dubious about him. He meets a Norse God, joins a superhero team, and feels terribly awkward about the whole monument at Arlington he's rendered obsolete by not being dead. Meanwhile, Tony is trying to make his mark on history by being the man who finally drove Nick Fury over the edge.

How could I resist? I read it, and it was wonderful and the accompanying art (by

made_of_tin) was stunning. That story was Tomorrow Belongs to Me by Valtyr (http://http://archiveofourown.org/works/259417)

It is still a great -- really, really great -- alternative reality to the start of the Avengers. And, then there was the pairing, which was a really interesting one, and one, that in comic terms produced a "Why didn't I think of that?" from me.

Valtyr's story led me to this site, and then I found the great rec site for the Avengers on TVTropes, the Tales of Suspense archive,

elspethdixon's list of fics and now I have 400 fics bookmaked on AO3 alone (and I am, you know, very picky about my fic.) What's more Steve/Tony has become my OTP.

It even got me back into reading Marvel comics. I ~~blame~~ thank

valtyr for that too.

(PS: For those of you following 'But in Battalions' I've had a bit of trouble, life and plotting wise, but the next chapter should be up soon.)

Edited 2014-05-14 05:59 (UTC)

Heh. Don't you just love fic that does that? Sometimes you just need a boost to rekindle an old flame. XD

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lil-shepherd.livejournal.com - 2014-05-14 07:23 (UTC) - Expand

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dragonofmemory - 2014-05-14 07:45 (UTC) - Expand

CA: TFA was the first MCU movie I watched! And I enjoyed it a lot - I adored Steve. Along the way I found out there was a kinkmeme for it, to which I went: "oh, people probably pair Steve with that best friend of his, huh?" Then I actually visited the place and went "...who in the world is Tony?" And I found out he's Iron Man, and I really had no idea about the shared Marvel universe, since my knowledge of Marvel were from the movies where everyone is so separate. Thus ended my interest in Avengers.

...Until the movie, when I was linked to the ship manifesto, fell in love, and did nothing for an entire summer but read Steve/Tony across all universes (I'm not kidding here about doing nothing else on the internet. I abandoned my tumblr, I didn't post on the forums I regularly frequented. I was a goner.) I figured out while in the middle of this binge that I'm more drawn to 616, which I realized to my horror I'd actually have to read one of these days, huh?

I'm actually still not too big a fan of the comics format (sequential art is not really my thing - I'm not good with manga, either) but I do enjoy the stories comics tell in their own right now!

The first 616 fic to really resonate with me was W.I.P.E. (http://archiveofourown.org/series/10994) I mean, boy, was I confused without any canon knowledge, but I really, really liked the whole idea of Extremis, and it was really made me go "okay, I have to read some comics to better understand it! And Civil War! And a brain delete, whaa...?" I still like it just as much rereading it after familiarity with the comics!

Edited 2014-05-14 06:06 (UTC)

There's no hope for you. There's no turning back now, once you've started down that path. XD Still, at least you seem to be enjoying your trip down the rabbit hole.

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lil-shepherd.livejournal.com - 2014-05-14 07:29 (UTC) - Expand

I will forever remember how I first got into SteveTony since it was my gateway to Marvel comics and the fandom

It was a (now deleted) askblog called "Don't Ask Iron Man" and it had a picture of Tony drunk as hell trying to kiss Steve. When I first encountered it I didn't even know the civilian names of Cap or Iron Man so I did some research and ended up at the list of slashy moments of SteveTony and ended up reading Marvel Adventures: Avengers.

Then it went all downhill to Marvel hell from there. It was a breath of fresh air though because my previous fandom was a hell pit.

Heh. Marvel Adventures does seem like a good place to start. It seems happier than all the other comic stuffs. Good to hear that it's an improvement on your last fandom though!

Oh I remember this so clearly. I had just seen the second Sherlock Holmes movie, and I had fallen hard for RDJ. I read my way through the Ritchie!verse, but I still wanted more. And then I remembered Iron Man.

Thanks to the now defunct crack_van LJ comm, I found all things Marvel. Including the Steve/Tony ship manifesto, which had a list of recommended fic at the bottom.

And one of those fics was Resurrection, Reconstruction & Redemption (http://archiveofourown.org/works/455066).

I read it. I cried. I read it again. I didn't even know who 90% of the characters were. I knew almost nothing about Civil War or the context of the story itself. But I was utterly taken in by the writing and by the story. And I needed more. So much more.

Within the week I had ordered Civil War from Amazon and read it, and that was it. I had my forever OTP.

Edited 2014-05-14 08:38 (UTC)

Heh. RDJ is a perfectly good reason to get into a fandom. You'd get no arguments from me. XD

RRR does seem to come highly recommended. Makes me wonder why I couldn't get into it when I tried it, especially since I've liked most of their other fics. Ah, well. It does it's job well for other people, and that's what counts, right?

There is, at least, plenty of fic to delve through, especially now with the rbb posting. <3

First fi read in this fandom: Homefront, by Red Tigress Homefront (https://www.fanfiction.net/s/7930062/1/Homefront)

First fanfic written in this fandom: Burning Candles, in response to a prompt. Burning Candles> (http://archiveofourown.org/works/670435)

Burning Candles is apparently one of those ones I was sure I commented on, but apparently have not. -_-;;; I always liked that one though.

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b7-kerravon.livejournal.com - 2014-05-15 14:29 (UTC) - Expand

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dragonofmemory - 2014-05-16 00:12 (UTC) - Expand

I don't remember what my first story was. I think it was something by scifigrl47. Probably Four (Or Five) Reasons for Kidnapping Tony Stark (http://archiveofourown.org/works/391599/chapters/642784), or something close to that. And then eventually I got suckered into reading RR&R even though I had close to no knowledge as to any of the characters.
I'd hung around the Tony/Pepper fandom for a while since I'd watched the Iron Man movies and I was really into Tony. And then I discovered the comic world. And by extension the rest of the MCU fics. Another story that was my gateway into fandom was The Twice-Told Tale (http://archiveofourown.org/works/411599).

But I'd never actually considered writing for the fandom until a lone prompt caught my eye on avengerkink, and then I wrote this monster called It's All in the Mind (http://archiveofourown.org/works/443037) and all its sequels and I've not looked back.

This is definitely my all-time favorite fandom. And I don't regret joining it.

Kink memes will do that to you. It makes me sad that the avengerskink one is a bit too big for me to really navigate (I'm picky with prompts, and that's way too much to sort through to find one or two gems that catch my eye. But I've totally entered a fandom through kink meme before when a prompt would just not leave me alone. It was a Valentines day prompt, of all things (I hate Valentines day...), but I don't regret it either.

It's good to have you here. <3

I don't remember my first stevetony fic. It was probably MCU, which is kind of funny, seeing how I tend to avoid it now.

What made me really ship them was Elspethdixon's ship manifesto. I didn't even finish reading it; I read just enough to know it's my kind of ship, and then I started reading comics. Oops. And then, after reading Civil War, I read RRR, and that was it. Good bye, happiness. Hello, angst. Hello, Tony feels.

If only I was warned how much it was going to hurt . . .

The first fic I wrote, um, Mem knows a lot about it. I wince at myself thinking about it now XD

Just wait till we get you into Babylon 5. Then you will know feels. XD

The ship manifesto really is a thing of beauty. It's a nice starting place when you just have no idea.

XD First fics are always painful. But hey, like I said, we all start somewhere.

'What was your gateway fic/art into Steve/Tony?'

Lemmie see... fanfic wise, although I've been reading lots of Marvel fanfics by then (I was a thorki fan before I got catapulted in here), it was probably It's All in the Mind series by inukagome15: http://archiveofourown.org/series/21783

And then I found that stony website for fanfic that I can't seem to recall the name of and yeah...

Art wise, I KNOW that it was because of a fanart by Ironfries. Especially the probo-steve art.

First art I did was actually a doujin comic of it that I didn't post online (except the supposedly cover for the doujin), but the art I'm actually happy posting of was of THIS (http://sukuiddo.tumblr.com/post/49581447257/cant-seem-to-draw-without-making-a-story-for-this) , it was a request/prompt thing.

Heh. Marvel is quite a big fandom. It's easy to fall into new ships, from what I've seen.

Aaaw, that's cute. Look at them in their band uniforms. <3

I’ve been a comics Fan for a long time and it’s a bit blurry how exactly I got to the pairing. But I think the first fic for it I read was Resurrection, Reconstruction, and Redemption which hit all my narrative buttons so perfectly that I just wanted more. And then I discovered the Resurrection, Reconstruction, and Redemption archive, I suppose, and never looked back.

RRR seems to be a popular one for gateway fic. Sounds like it did it's job well. XD

I have been reading Marvel since 2000 here and there, mostly one-shots, character centric things and X-Men. Read Ultimates and Ultimate things then too. Not dwelled into fandom except for reading some Scott/Logan fics around 2001. I saw Iron Man I really enjoyed, but didn't get me into fandom. Started to read Thor and Punisher and continued with X-Men (specially Astonishing X-Men) around 2008. Still no Avengers though (only Young Avengers, which I enjoyed).

Time passed and I became obssessed with Marvel again because XMFC. So this time I dwelled into the fandom via Tumblr and LJ. As time went passing Iron Man 2 and Cap 1 went out and a friend had the whole New Avengers vol1. So... well, I have been reading a lot since then.

Also, by that time my dashboard at Tumblr also was full of Marvel movies and I started to dwell a bit more into it while reading New Avengers comics. One day I downloaded a couple of fics Steve/Tony related (to mix a bit amongs Charles/Erik xD). I'm not really sure what was the first one I read but I think it was "Tomorrow belongs to me" that you mentioned. I liked it and by then Avengers MCU wasn't released so it was a cool take on it :D

Avengers movie came out and it was fun so I donwloaded more fics ("Semaphore" I think, "Even the light is an illusion", "I wanted to fix this (but couldn't stop from tearing it down)", "This time tomorrow (where were we)"...).

But what make me really ship them? REALLY? The last image of "The confession". I saw it around 2010. No need to tell what I'm talking about, right? xD I stumbled upon it. I needed to know what the whole scene was about so I asked a friend. And then I read Civil War and pretty much everything went to hell and it was FUN. Still, I was into XMFC very hard

Also I have a confession to make and it's I didn't check the tags very much by then So I just mixed the universes a lot xD Like, I would read a 616 fic as if it were an MCU fic and things were odd but I went along with it. I KNOW this makes zero sense and I dunno how I managed to do it but I remember certain fics I read as it they were MCU and they were 616 and now I think I should read them again xD

And in the end what really really got me into fandom and making fanart and all that was IM3. I have been lingering in fandom borders between XMFC, lurking, but that movie (with its goods and its bads) pushed me definitely into C/IM fandom actively :)

The first image I made in this fandom was for the Summer Steve/Tony fest. I had drawn them before once but I found it the other day in a sketchbook and it's awful in so many levels... xD

TL;DR: Not a moment but a series of moments that went gradually. Thank you, "The Confession" for ruining my life :D

Some people just fall off the cliff. Others need to be nugged repeatedly in the right direction until they find the light. Makes the journey no less satisfying though once you start flying/falling. At least until the ground of feels catches up with you.

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shaliara.livejournal.com - 2014-05-26 07:29 (UTC) - Expand

After seeing CA:TWS, I had a lot of Steve feels and I thought he looked devastatingly lonely and the next logical step was obviously to pair him with someone. For some reason I didn't and couldn't consider Bucky, but I remembered how intrigued I was when seeing Steve/Tony gifset on Tumblr about a year prior, so I made some searching. Which led me to this fan video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHupKWgIVhM) and I was a lost cause since.

Other videos I usually rewatch for instant feels are this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVqZpB_hAnU) and this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJzffBLv7SM&list=LLW2a7Mx2vZ70EKKUqZzgVfQ&index=1) (a bit NSFW). There are a lot of amazing Steve/Tony vids on Youtube, I feel like linking all of them :)

Not exactly the actual first Steve/Tony fic I read, but Buy You a Mocking Bird (http://archiveofourown.org/works/256017) by jadedoll (http://archiveofourown.org/users/jadedoll/pseuds/jadedoll) is definitely the first one that got me even more hooked with this ship. Kid!fic is really tricky, but Buy You a Mocking Bird's set-up is plausible and believable and not mushy at all (also I'm a huge sucker for first-time fic).

Edited 2014-05-25 18:10 (UTC)

Oh, you sound like new blood. XD Welcome to the ship! She's a bit battered at the moment (don't ask about Original Sin. You will only receive flailing and angst, my friend), but she'll fly true. But yeah, I can't ship Bucky with anyone right now, and definitely not Steve. For me it's a consent thing. Bucky's so childlike at times when he's half-remembered, and he's so fucked up at the moment that there's absolutely no way he could give informed consent.

I shall have to check out these videos when my VPN is working. <3

I do love that fic. It's strange, because I don't really like kid fic at all, but Buy You a Mocking Bird always makes me cry.