discussion post: could they retire? would they?

[crimsonquills.livejournal.com]

Between the fact that I'm very much a happily-ever-after type of reader and writer and the fact that I find older (and by older I mean in their 50's) men hot, I've found myself frequently wondering how life would work out for Steve and Tony as they grow older. Which inevitably begs the question:

Could these two men ever actually retire from superheroing?

Eventually--even if the actual time is delayed by moderate healing factors--they are both inevitably going to get too old to do this stuff. They'll start slowing down, they won't heal as well or as quickly, they won't be able to maintain as much muscle mass...it's the natural progress of age for two guys who, despite their bizarre histories, are still human. Experience will make up the gap for awhile, but eventually they'll get to a point where it'll be retire or choose to die in the saddle, so to speak.

So, would they retire? Either of them? What would it take for them to actually give up "active duty" and take on a purely mentorship/advisory role? ('Cause you know that even if they left active duty, they'd never get out of the game 100%.)

I have a scenario in my head that I'm rather fond of, though I don't know how "realistic" it is. *g* Basically, the new breed of Avengers--to whom Steve and Tony are very much mentor/parent types--realize that Steve and Tony really are getting too old for this game and that they're going to get themselves killed if they don't take a step back. But the newer, young Avengers also realize that neither Steve nor Tony will ever take that step back for their own sake.

So they cook up a plan: Tell Steve that they're very worried about Tony, blah blah blah, but they know he'd never even consider retiring if anyone suggested it to him. But if Steve were to tell Tony that he, Steve is retiring, and that he's feeling kind of odd about it, and they've done everything together for decades, and would Tony consider coming with him, just to, you know, keep him company? Then maybe Tony would actually do it. And, of course, Steve has been worrying about Tony, too, and Steve realizes that he is getting older and maybe he does only have a couple of years left in him, and if he has to give up a couple of years to keep Tony safe, well, that's worth it, right?

And then they live happily ever after. *g*

Comments

[megalotro.livejournal.com]

Wow, you sort of... just laid out my entire planned babble right there... I definitely feel that Steve would have to be the one to instigate their 'retirement' - because he won't retire until Tony does and Tony would never let him go out without him, so he won't retire until STEVE does... I agree completely that they'd stay with training/mentoring because they could never give it up. I can totally see several (SEVERAL) 'false starts' at retiring - they retire, something comes up, they come out of retirement. Rinse and repeat.

^____^ It's entirely heartwarming.

And dang, makes me want to color my hot-old-guys pic now :P Curse you!

-Tro

[0bscurity.livejournal.com]

I totally agree about the 'false starts' - I think they would both just be way to incredibly 'duty-bound' if you will for so long that, even if the threat wasn't actually directed at them, they'd be way to concerned to let the Young Avengers go at it by themselves. Like parents who are handing the keys over to their kids when they first get their drivers license - They keep trying to brake and accelerate even in the passenger seat.

I think it would be adorable though if the Young Avengers actually did get in over their heads their first few times around and Tony and Steve would whisk in and sort everything out, because let's face it, they've still got it.

[megalotro.livejournal.com]

I totally agree about the 'false starts' - I think they would both just be way to incredibly 'duty-bound' if you will for so long that, even if the threat wasn't actually directed at them, they'd be way to concerned to let the Young Avengers go at it by themselves. Like parents who are handing the keys over to their kids when they first get their drivers license - They keep trying to brake and accelerate even in the passenger seat.

I can SO see that. *snerk*

I think it would be adorable though if the Young Avengers actually did get in over their heads their first few times around and Tony and Steve would whisk in and sort everything out, because let's face it, they've still got it.

*wibble* That's just too adorable a mental image. It really is. And the Young Avengers would be all fanboy/fangirling in that magical way that they have *heart*

-Tro

[crimsonquills.livejournal.com]

I think it would be adorable though if the Young Avengers actually did get in over their heads their first few times around and Tony and Steve would whisk in and sort everything out, because let's face it, they've still got it.

*grins* Except I bet by the time Steve and Tony can bring themselves to retire for real, they'll have trained a couple of generations of superheroes! So in theory there will be a couple ranks of really experienced superheroes between them and the really new folks who need occasional rescues.

Although it would be funny if they did have to save and the day and one of the new, young Avenger is all, "OMG, we just had to have our asses saved by a pair of sixty-year-olds! I'm going to die of shame!"

At least they're sixty year old legends, right? *g* (Assuming they aren't even older when they retire; healing factors could keep them going quite a while!)

[crimsonquills.livejournal.com]

because he won't retire until Tony does and Tony would never let him go out without him, so he won't retire until STEVE does...

This just makes me think, "I'll do it if you do it!" "Okay, but you first!" "No, you first!" "Okay, on three..." *grins*

I can totally see several (SEVERAL) 'false starts' at retiring - they retire, something comes up, they come out of retirement. Rinse and repeat.

Oh yeah. It'd take a few tries. I figure the first couple of tries one of them would try to retire on their own, though. It's a lot easier not to leap out of bed for a crisis if your lover is there with you, nuzzling your neck and saying, "The kids can handle it. They can. We have to let them handle... Right?" *grins*

And dang, makes me want to color my hot-old-guys pic now :P Curse you!

*utterly fails to regret this* :-P

Of course, it makes me want to write it. But my brain can't decide if they're already lovers when they retire or if the act of retiring makes them realize just how entwined they are in each other's lives and how much they really only want to be with each other.

[megalotro.livejournal.com]

This just makes me think, "I'll do it if you do it!" "Okay, but you first!" "No, you first!" "Okay, on three..." *grins*

EXACTLY :) LOL, then the argument over who broke the agreement to retire first *snerk*

Oh yeah. It'd take a few tries. I figure the first couple of tries one of them would try to retire on their own, though. It's a lot easier not to leap out of bed for a crisis if your lover is there with you, nuzzling your neck and saying, "The kids can handle it. They can. We have to let them handle... Right?" *grins*

Yom yom, nice visual~ Mmm, if I get good enough at drawing to do a small, one page piece, I'll do that.

*utterly fails to regret this* :-P

*cough*tramp*cough*

Of course, it makes me want to write it. But my brain can't decide if they're already lovers when they retire or if the act of retiring makes them realize just how entwined they are in each other's lives and how much they really only want to be with each other.

Hmmm, tasty either way, but I think I'm pretty far toward the idea that if they've grown up enough to have the common sense to try to retire, they have the common sense to have figured out what they mean to each other :) Plus, I really, really want them to have as much time together as they can *melty*

-Tro

[seanchai.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah. It'd take a few tries. I figure the first couple of tries one of them would try to retire on their own, though. It's a lot easier not to leap out of bed for a crisis if your lover is there with you, nuzzling your neck and saying, "The kids can handle it. They can. We have to let them handle... Right?" *grins*

And then they would totally get out of bed anyway, and go watch everything on the security cameras, courtesy of Stark-cam.

Of course, it makes me want to write it. But my brain can't decide if they're already lovers when they retire or if the act of retiring makes them realize just how entwined they are in each other's lives and how much they really only want to be with each other.

Oh, they're all ready together. By that point, even they'd have figured it out. Plus, I'm not sure the scenario works quite as well, otherwise.

[haruka89.livejournal.com]

The kind of person Tony and Steve belong to never really retire from their jobs, though they may retire from the active parts (read: the actual fights). It's just who they are. They can't really stop.

To get Tony and Steve to really retire from active duty it either needs everyone else ganging up on them or one (or both) of them almost dying because of their age (in that case they'd both bully the other into retirement). The second is more probably, I think. Or one of them is wounded in a way that makes going into fights impossible (which is a very difficult thing to achieve in case of Extremis!Tony).

And shame on you! Now I have another plot bunny jumping around my room and I can't even see him clearly!

[crimsonquills.livejournal.com]

The kind of person Tony and Steve belong to never really retire from their jobs, though they may retire from the active parts (read: the actual fights). It's just who they are. They can't really stop.

Yeah, I do agree. Hence the suggestion of a move to a mentorship/advisory sort of role. I think it would take a serious mental breakdown for either of them to even seriously consider stepping away from the Avengers completely. And maybe not even then, because the both kind of use the Avengers as a stabilizing influence and coping mechanism.

To get Tony and Steve to really retire from active duty it either needs everyone else ganging up on them or one (or both) of them almost dying because of their age (in that case they'd both bully the other into retirement).

Or both. *wry*

Or one of them is wounded in a way that makes going into fights impossible (which is a very difficult thing to achieve in case of Extremis!Tony).

I don't think a physical wound would realistically do it, if only because both Steve and Tony have been paralyzed at different points in canon, and they managed to find a way to go on in those situations. How much worse can you get than that??? I mean, even if they lost limbs, Tony would just make them new ones!

And shame on you! Now I have another plot bunny jumping around my room and I can't even see him clearly!

*laughs* I have no shame! None at all. *g* Your vague bunny can keep my vague bunny company. *g*

[haruka89.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I do agree. (...) coping mechanism.

Well, since you already more or less said what will most probably happen, so I kept with the reason.

Or both. *wry*

Uh, yes. If they're being incredibly stubborn. Which is very likely. *headdesks*

I don't think a physical wound would realistically do it, if only because both Steve and Tony have been paralyzed at different points in canon, and they managed to find a way to go on in those situations. How much worse can you get than that??? I mean, even if they lost limbs, Tony would just make them new ones!

There is that.

I have no shame! None at all.

Obviously. *smirks*

Your vague bunny can keep my vague bunny company. *g*

Do you think that is wise? Who knows what trouble they'd make together? *giggles*

[fire-tears.livejournal.com]

Okay, pretty much everyone's said what I was going to, so:

Peter ages slowly, too, so he could help the youngins with their nefarious plot to keep Steve and Tony from getting themselves killed.

Of course, Steve will still have to drag Tony out of the lab at all hours of the night and morning (and probably day), because damnit, if Tony can't be in active duty, he's going to invent twice as much cool shit for the new team.

How old d'you think they'd live to be, assuming they died of old age? I'm going to say into 100+, which would probably be their equivalent of a normal person's 80 - 90 years old. Not an INSANELY long life span (y halo thar Logan), but definitely longer than average.

I mean, there are quite a few people who live to be 90+ years and they're still pretty spry. It's not a huge stretch to think that Steve and Tony, with their retarded aging and the healing factor, could reach 120 or so.

I'm pretty sure it's canon that Peter will look about thirty when he's fifty, and his body will still be pretty much at its prime when he's into his sixties.

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

Though you could argue that (if the Extremis really does fix damage on a cellular level, like they've said in canon in a couple of places) the Extremis has the ability to confer Logan-level insanely long lifespans. You could argue that age-related damege, since it occurs gradually and slowly, could be healed just as easily by a low-level healing factor like the Super Soldier Serum's or the Extremis as by a high-level one. I.E. that the gradual damage of aging can slowly heal as it occurs so that you're in a holding pattern, but that injuries, which occur all at once and suddenly, are harder to heal.

There's no evidence either way, since nobody in Marvel has gotten old yet who wasn't old to start with (like Aunt May or Professor X), so you could pretty much do whatever you wanted with it.

[tavella.livejournal.com]

There have been a number of futures we've seen that have strongly suggested that Steve effectively does not age, or ages *extremely* slowly, though. Earth X, 1602, I think there have been others. He does age in HoM, but that's his 'dream world', and I suspect being in his own time and growing old normally is part of his desires.

[seanchai.livejournal.com]

Peter ages slowly, too, so he could help the youngins with their nefarious plot to keep Steve and Tony from getting themselves killed.

Oh yes! I hadn't though about that, but Peter would totally be in on the 'evil scheme'. In fact, he might be heading it up.

Of course, Steve will still have to drag Tony out of the lab at all hours of the night and morning (and probably day), because damnit, if Tony can't be in active duty, he's going to invent twice as much cool shit for the new team.

Yes, yes he will. Especially because though years of being happily, and essentially married to Steve will have done a lot for Tony, he'll probably still feel vaguely guilty about not contributing enough, and push himself, especially at first.

How old d'you think they'd live to be, assuming they died of old age? I'm going to say into 100+, which would probably be their equivalent of a normal person's 80 - 90 years old. Not an INSANELY long life span (y halo thar Logan), but definitely longer than average.

That sounds about right to me :).

[crimsonquills.livejournal.com]

Peter ages slowly, too

*blinks* He does? I had no idea. Man, I've really lost touch with Spider-Man canon! I used to be in good shape, but definitely not anymore.

Of course, Steve will still have to drag Tony out of the lab at all hours of the night and morning (and probably day), because damnit, if Tony can't be in active duty, he's going to invent twice as much cool shit for the new team.

*laughs* Of course! As seanchai said, partly out of a feeling he needs to contribute more, always more, but I think also partly because he's always going to feel responsible for the folk who follow after him and Steve. And sending them out with good tech is one way to sort of take care of them. Just like Steve will train them like crazy, probably even harder than he did when he was active duty, because if he can't watch their backs in person, he's going to make damn sure they have the skills they need.

How old d'you think they'd live to be, assuming they died of old age? I'm going to say into 100+

*nods* I think 120 or even 140 (for total lifespan, not total active duty life span) wouldn't be unreasonable. As someone else said, there are a number of ordinary folks around today who make it to over 100.

[axolotl-lan.livejournal.com]

My great grandmother still lived in her own home and took care of herself quite well into her hundred's and wasn't even in possession of a healing factor or whatever so I am with firetears somewhat since I would think Steve might pull of 135/40, Tony not so much unless he like invents stuff that keeps him going or extremis is just that good... actually.

Also, I would say to retirement, they would die in a blaze of glory something would go on and they would be brought back to life young and pretty but this time wholly aware of one another's love and show the youngin's why they are legends.

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

they would die in a blaze of glory something would go on and they would be brought back to life young and pretty

Knowing comics, this is what will happen in canon if the timeline ever advances that far. That, or the wreiters will say that the Super Solder Serum and Extremis do confer Wolverine-level non-aging.

[crimsonquills.livejournal.com]

My great grandmother still lived in her own home and took care of herself quite well into her hundred's and wasn't even in possession of a healing factor or whatever so I am with firetears somewhat since I would think Steve might pull of 135/40, Tony not so much unless he like invents stuff that keeps him going or extremis is just that good... actually.

Yeah, I think 135/140 is reasonable. And wow, those are some good genes you've got in your family tree! *g*

Also, I would say to retirement, they would die in a blaze of glory something would go on and they would be brought back to life young and pretty but this time wholly aware of one another's love and show the youngin's why they are legends.

*laughs* Yeah, I agree with elspethdixon that this is probably what canon would do if they every actually let Steve and Tony get old instead of just eternally advancing the telescoping timeline.

But you know, I find the idea of them fighting on essentially eternally a little bit sad. Never getting to rest, to enjoy life instead of being eternally on call to hold back the forces of evil... I know that it's their reason for being, but after 80 or 90 years, surely even they will get emotionally and/or spiritually tired!

[seanchai.livejournal.com]

That's pretty much exactly the way I see it happening. Of course, given healing factors, it would be a while down the road, and with a few false starts, but that's how it'd happen.

I tend to see them probably staying in the Mansion, at least part of the time, because even retired, they'd both need to be a part of things. Steve would help train the new youngsters, and Tony would help out with the tech stuff, and after a lot of yelling, they'd eventually accept that 'retired' meant that they weren't supposed to suit up every time something happened.

Actually, they'd be kind of like Jay Garret and Alan Scott from the JSA.

[crimsonquills.livejournal.com]

I tend to see them probably staying in the Mansion, at least part of the time, because even retired, they'd both need to be a part of things.

Oh, yes, I definitely think they'd stay in the Mansion. It would make it hard for them to stay behind when the younger set goes out on active duty, but I don't think either of them could bear to be too far from the heart of things.

Steve would help train the new youngsters, and Tony would help out with the tech stuff, and after a lot of yelling, they'd eventually accept that 'retired' meant that they weren't supposed to suit up every time something happened.

Yelling at each other, yelling at the youngers, being yelled at by the youngsters...yeah, there's be a lot of yelling before they settled into the new order of things. *grins*

Actually, they'd be kind of like Jay Garret and Alan Scott from the JSA.

Alan Scott I've heard a little bit about, but who is Jay Garret? *curious*

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

Realistically, if Steve didn't decide to retire and make Tony do it with him, Tony would keep going until he died (via supervillain, probably, rather than via age). Getting older wouldn't affect his abilty to do the whole superhero thing as much as it would other heroes, because he could have the armor compensate. I mean, the armor was compensating for Tony not being able to walk at one point, and being sixty and having bad knees is a lot less of a physical hurdle than paralysis. He could just keep upgrading until he'd essentially turned himself into Metallo sans kryptonite, or a Borg.

So, probably, once Danielle "Power Fist" Cage-Jones and the others have confront Steve about why they think he and Tony ought to retire, Steve's going to have to, like you said, convince Tony to do it for his (Steve's) sake.

[crimsonquills.livejournal.com]

Realistically, if Steve didn't decide to retire and make Tony do it with him, Tony would keep going until he died (via supervillain, probably, rather than via age).

Yeah. Between his overdeveloped sense of responsibility and his feeling that he doesn't contribute enough, I don't think Tony would ever reach the point of feeling that it's okay for him to step back and take a bit more time for himself.

Getting older wouldn't affect his abilty to do the whole superhero thing as much as it would other heroes, because he could have the armor compensate.

True. And, as runenklinge pointed out, if it came to it, he could remote pilot the armor, though being inside it is probably best.

Those two things do make me wonder if even Steve could convince Tony to leave "active duty" completely in favor of a mentorship role. And if Tony is capable even at higher risk, would Steve even be okay with asking? If anyone understands duty, it's Steve.

But thinking of the boys having some "golden years" together is part of happily ever after in my head. I'd hate to them of them battling to their very last day.

[runenklinge.livejournal.com]

I have an idea I don´t think all of you remembered:
With the Extremis, couldn´t Tony simply remote-control his suit?
So that when he´s sitting in front of his house with Steve on their hollywood-swing - yelling at young people to get off his lawn...he could be fighting crime.

He would still be an active part, although not being there physically.
or he could act as information central ala Oracle from DC.
He basically is the internet.

I agree with all of you on the "retarded aging thing"...I mean, look at Fury. He´s over 100 years old (said wikipedia) and is still going on.

These two will eventually act as supervisors and as teachers for future generations. And will still kick as when needed.

[crimsonquills.livejournal.com]

You're right, I totally didn't think of that!

It doesn't seem fair that Tony could fight by remote control while Steve had to retire, though. And he'd be sort of zoned out at those times, I expect, not concentrating fully on the fight. We did see in Civil War that Tony can fight with the suit by remote control while doing something else (he was recording a public service announcement, I think), but he did get a bit distracted from the PSA.

I love the idea of Tony being the Marvel version of Oracle though! *g* Partly that's just because Oracle is awesome all by herself. *bg*

I mean, look at Fury. He´s over 100 years old (said wikipedia) and is still going on.

Have they ever actually explained why Nick Fury is perpetually the same age despite still having a history in the second world war? Or is that just handwaved with the rest of the inconsistencies generated by the telescoping timeline?

[pandanoai.livejournal.com]

::giggles:: perfect!