cap_ironman | Question and a Ficlet

Current Music: Miserablism - The Pet Shop Boys

Entry tags:

Question and a Ficlet

I'm starting work on a fic that will bring Cap back, and have a few questions about magic in the Marvel universe. I know a bit about the Scarlet Witch and her magic, very little else. Who are the key magic users, and are there any set 'rules' about magic use in the MU? Like, can people learn magic, or do you have to be born with the ability?

Also, there's a tiny ficlet under the cut, in which Thor visits Cap's ghost again after the end of Secret Invasion. So, um, spoilers.

He looked much the same as the last time. He was still shrouded in shadow, with what little of him that was visible glowing with a ghostly light. His cloak had changed, though. It was no longer the gray-blue of dusk, but instead a purple do deep it was almost black. Silver glinted at the hem of the hood.

The ethereal man spoke. "You heard my summons. I'm glad you came."

Thor bowed his head. "I would not ignore a call from you, old friend."

"I have a favor to ask of you."

With his hammer resting against the ground, Thor knelt before the spirit of his brother in arms. "What do you require of me? I will do all in my power to answer thy request."

Through the pervasive shadows, Thor could see Captain America smile sadly. "It won't be easy."

"I will not shy from any quest you set before me, old friend."

"I won't ask you to forgive Tony," Cap began, pausing as Thor stiffened. "because it's not my place to judge whether or not what he's done to you is forgivable. But there are things I can see now, from where I am, that I couldn't see when I was alive."

Cap tipped his head towards the light, revealing one solemn blue eye. "People don't stagnate. They don't stand at crossroads no matter how caught or confused they feel. They are always moving along pathways, towards something worse or something better. I understand if you hate what Tony has become. But he's going to become worse. If you stand by silently, you will be allowing him to go to his destruction."

"Tony Stark is responsible for what atrocities he has committed," Thor replied, staring hard at the ground before him. "He is responsible for the man he has become."

"Yes. But who will be responsible for what comes next?"

Thor looked up, the words causing a strange mix of fear and hope in his heart. It was his duty to protect the people of Earth, and perhaps that was exactly what Captain America was asking him to do. "I cannot forgive Tony Stark," he said. "What action would you have me take?"

"I just need you to go to him." The sad smile was back, glowing softly in the night. "Touch him without causing him pain. Put a hand on his shoulder without anger or agenda. It's what I should have done. It's what I no longer have the option of doing. And if you feel you can't do that... just let him know I don't hate him."

Thor nodded, his throat feeling tight. "You spoke the truth. It will not be easy, but I will do as you ask."

"Thank you, old friend. It's time I left."

Thor knew it was unwise to ask questions of the dead, but as Cap began to fade he suddenly said, "what has become of thy cloak?"

Surprise flashed across Cap's face, then he looked down and his expression cleared. "Oh, that. I let Jan do some adjustments. Apparently this sets off my eyes better."

A sob of relief escaped Thor. "The wondrous Wasp is with you! Your words bring me such pleasure!"

"I'm glad to be of service." He was still fading, but his smile seemed warmer than before. "I know our team can no longer fight together, but we still need to do our best. I'll look after the Avengers on this side of the veil, if you look after the ones still living."

Thor bowed his head as Cap vanished. "In your name, I will not fail the Avengers."

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

The only other magicky people I know of in MU are Dr. Strange and Wiccan, from the Young Avengers. I don't know any Rules and Regs. in terms of magic use, though. *r-relative n00b to MU. orz*

Re ficlet: WHY HELLO THERE, THAT WOULD BE THE SOUND OF MY HEART BREAKING, YES. *headdesk* Loved it, though. Especially Thor's reaction to Jan. ;_;

Thank you. I will look into Dr. Strange and Wiccan.

Sorry about the breaking of any hearts. Umm... need an arc reactor? ;-) I'm glad you enjoyed it!

Magic is essentially like any other ability in MU, some people are born with a preposition to it, but it can be mastered with hard work. Also, this could be of use (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Fictional_characters_in_Marvel_Comics_who_use_magic). In Doctor Strange's wiki there's a bit talking about the specific rules and regulations, and lack thereof that might help as well.

ALSO THAT FIC. I actually lol'd at the bit about Jan ~tweaking~ his otherworldly clothes. That was very touching, thank you for sharing.

Thanks! That looks like a very comprehensive list - very helpful. I didn't actually think there would be a separate page on wiki for Marvel magic users. That's what I get for doubting wiki.

Well, you just know Jan would make the afterlife her own. Thanks for reading!

Oh CAP.... ;_; *sniffle* That was beautiful...

The other man magic users I know of are Dr Strange (very powerful), Wong (Dr Strange's assisstant, also knows some magic) Wiccan (... I don't think he's very powerful), Brother Voodoo (not sure how powerful, and I think he's a villain)

In Marvel though, I think magic is mostly a born ability, sometimes link to mutants. Although with Dr Strange... I'm not really sure

Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed it! And thanks for the names of some magic users - it's a helpful place to start my research. ;-)

Wiccan is the Scarlet Witch's son, so you may be able to do something with that. He and Speed are twins, Speed has... Quicksilver's powers though, and Wiccan got the Scarlet Witch's. I think that's right.

Wiccan hasn't been shown as being nearly as powerful as his mom when it comes to magical abilities. Dr, Strange seems to be, more or less, the authority on magic in the MU. And he's got all sorts of rules that he's got to adhere to...it's odd.

One person people forgot is Sister Grimm from the Runaways. She's got her staff, and after a bit of time traveling, got a power boost. But the Runaways tend to try their damnedest to stay as uninvolved with the major events of the MU.

Nico also used up her resurrection spell already, so she can't bring anyone back from the dead. Her spells can only be used once.

Er. Sister Grimm = Nico. Sorry.

Yea, her real name just slipped my mind once I posted. xD

~~Ew, who's the father?~~

There was no father. She immaculately conceived I think, by force of will. Though apparently their souls are two halves of some macho dark wizard sort of thing... That part was a bit confusing.

It..sorta kinda Original!Vision, if I recall. How that worked is not something I want to really dwell on.Because. Uh..yea. Robo sperm....

He was an actual Doctor (a neurosurgeon, I believe) before an accident put an end to that, and then he started learning magic. From wiki:

In adulthood, Stephen becomes an accomplished, but arrogant, surgeon until he suffers subtle, though profound, neurological damage in an automobile accident in 1963. His hands in particular are no longer able to make the precise, fine movements necessary for surgery, although their overall mobility remains. Unable to continue his profession and too proud to accept subordinate medical assignments, he becomes unemployed and destitute. He is reduced to being a derelict, performing shady medical procedures for little money. Learning of a hermit called the Ancient One who might possibly cure him, the desperate Strange ventures to the man's isolated Himalayan abode and asks him for aid. The Ancient One instead offers to take Strange on as an apprentice in the mystic arts. Strange refuses, but cannot leave immediately due to a sudden blizzard.[3]

While staying for the duration of the storm, Strange witnesses the Ancient One's apprentice, Baron Mordo, secretly attack the teacher with mystically summoned skeletons, which the old man easily dispels. Strange, his skepticism eroding, confronts Mordo about the treachery but Mordo responds with restraining spells that keep Strange from warning the Ancient One or attacking Mordo physically. Amazed by these displays of magic, alarmed by Mordo, but frustrated by the mystic restraints, Strange undergoes a change of heart. Deciding that the only way to stop Mordo is to learn magic himself in order to challenge Mordo on his terms, Strange accepts the Ancient One's offer. Pleased by Strange's acceptance for unselfish reasons, the Ancient One removes the mystic restraints, explaining that he is well aware of Mordo's treachery but prefers to keep Mordo close by in order to control and possibly change him.[3] Strange studies magic under the Ancient One for seven years and returns to the United States in the 1970s.

http://marvel.com/universe/Doctor_Strange_(Stephen_Strange)

Here's a link for magic in the marvel U http://www.marvel.com/universe/Category:Magic

There's a "What If?" out there where Tony becomes Sorcerer Supreme instead of Doctor Strange, if that helps. Just let me google for a minute.... It's What If #113 - Iron Sorcerer Supreme.

I also have a vague memory of a FF story where Reed Richards learned some magic, but I may be confusing comics with fanfic there. The impression I got is that with enough effort, anyone can learn magic, but some people are much, much better at it than others.

Edited 2008-12-08 11:37 (UTC)

How did that came about in that universe? ...and is Steve there? ...and is Dr.Doom suing for copyright issues?

Look and see! (http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/5231101.html#cutid1) (Disclaimer: it's scans_daily, so it's probably best not to read the comments)

Thanks for the link. I've always been interested in that story, but somehow, it rings a bit hollow. Dr Strange's arrogance (even though he's supposedly 'humble' after he become a sorcerer - bollocks to that, because Strange has always been a tad proud) is part of what makes the character for me. He's like, the most powerful man in Marvel U.

How do you actually find the scans tags? Are they kept in a particular place?

You can find a list of all of the tags on the Scans Daily community in alphabetical order, and their number of uses each, at http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/tag/ if that helps. If not... feel free to ignore me. ^_^

Of course Jan would insist on a new cloak!

;~;

*points to ficlet* MARVEL! DO THIS! AND I WILL NOT HURT YOU.

Dr. Strange is the Sorcerer Supreme, THE great and powerful magical badass of the Marvel Universe. His job is to guard against magical incursions from extradimensional Powers That Be and keep things intact against reality-splitting threats. Normally he doesn't get involved with the affairs of the "normal" superheroes--it'd be disruptive for him to take sides that way, and besides he considers most of them friends.

Dr. Doom is a powerful effing sorcerer in his own right. He lets people forget it for great stretches of time, and then cuts loose with some demon-summoning hoodoo that levels the surrounding territory. He vied against Doc Strange for Sorcerer Supreme once, but the good Doctor narrowly beat him.

Magic is normally a learned skill. Wanda is an exception, as her mutant power is to control magic, which makes her pretty scary. Agatha Harkness, a witch who apparently has mysterious ties to some of those extradimensional Powers That Be that I mentioned, was her mentor for a long time, but Agatha's dead, or something.

Dr. Strange seems to still be able to kick Wanda's ass if necessary (at least he's never displayed a lack of confidence when dealing with her wreckage, but then he's always been terrifyingly sure of himself), but he taught her a lot too, and has generally been able to talk her out of things rather than fighting her.

I don't know much about Wiccan. Druid is a bad guy, who was hanging out with The Hood in SI, and he seems to be magic. I don't know much about him, though.

Amora the Enchantress, one of the Asgardians, is a sorceress as well as a god, as is Loki. Odin is, among other things, God of Magic, but he's seldom on stage and never on earth so far as I know, so he's more or less out of the picture. Thor is sometimes depicted as knowing the magic of runes, but that's spotty. Guess he's better at it these days, though, since I gather he's the ruler of Asgard now. There was something about him summoning Cap's ghost to speak with him at one point.

Oh! I knew I forgot somebody: Adam Warlock. He's...I don't even know what he is, but when he's around dimensions crack open, universes end, and the Infinity Gauntlet comes out to play.

There was something about him summoning Cap's ghost to speak with him at one point.

*cough* Which, I notice, now that I read your story, you're aware of. Yes. Well. :D

WANT, by the way. It's a beautiful little thing, and I wish Marvel'd have the sense to go there.

People seem to forget how bad ass Dr Strange is. I mean, as much as I'm iffy towards Bendis' writing of the Dr Strange character, at least he's shown that Strange is powerful (even though, I'm still WTF? Over his fate in World War Hulk), it's just that he tends to sit on the sidelines until needed.

Dr. Doom is a powerful effing sorcerer in his own right. He lets people forget it for great stretches of time, and then cuts loose with some demon-summoning hoodoo that levels the surrounding territory. He vied against Doc Strange for Sorcerer Supreme once, but the good Doctor narrowly beat him.

Yeah, something tells me that Dr Doom might be sorcerer supreme now that he's like, a part of the Dark Reign.

I think even with Wanda and her hex power, she still has to 'calculate' her hex power and work with it (like in Red Zone and shown to some extent in the Ultimates verse).

Oh cheers for the link to the blog.

It seems that I'm working backwards on this fic (I've actually started), as the back canon becomes available to me.

Oh! I hadn't thought of that. Dr. Doom as Sorcerer Supreme would suck more than average. (Even though I understand Strange lost the job due to using black magic--which never mattered before--and Dr. Doom just loves the stuff. But why start making sense now?)

Yeah, I can't figure out that World War Hulk thing, myself. I hope the blog helps, though.

Hey, speaking of Strange. Just for my own edification: I spotted him over in one of the SI tie-ins, hunting down fragments of the Cosmic Cube and trying to keep time from unraveling (again). I only flipped through it, but it sounds like Skrulls got their hands on the shards of the thing, and started mucking about in time to make their invasion happen? Also this baffles me slightly, as Wiki informs me that Strange hasn't been seen in a while. Got any idea?

Which SI tie in was this? I dunno what's up with Stephen Strange, yo. I do hope that he finds the cosmic cube and comes back some time down the road, after he's squared that whole Zorn demon nonsense away. I tell myself that if he used black magic for the good of the earth the Vishnu might give him a pass after a period of repentance.

but it sounds like Skrulls got their hands on the shards of the thing, and started mucking about in time to make their invasion happen?

That would make sense, especially since the SI invasion had this creepy religious fanaticism from the Skrulls, when they spoke of their Holy Book, and prophecy. They made it seem as if inheriting the earth was some sort of Holy Mission, especially since they have no more worlds to colonize. So yeah, that might be a story that the creators will get back on.

I hear stirrings about the Infinity Gautlet coming back as well (cue me going, Again? because I suffered through the first event in the 80s, I think).

Hey, were you still serious about reading my Tony Stark centric fic? The thing is, I have it in google documents, because it's easier for people to correct stuff in real time and it avoids the issue of who has microsoft word/office or i mac platforms.

In addition, I'm also not doing the fic in order, because I'm writing as the canon becomes available to me. Would you want to read it in stages, or should I just link you when the entire thing is done?

Cheers.

The Infinity Gauntlet is a menace, and I hope it stays away. I've heard that rumor too, which started thanks to the Illuminati fetching the gems (Tony has the Reality Gem, hah!). Amusing as that is, however, I still hope it's only a rumor. :P *sigh* But what's the point of having heroes hunt down Infinity Gems if you're not planning on breaking them out?

Oh, crap. I hope that's not what Osborn is after.

I am still serious about reading your fic, yes! I'm willing to read in stages. Since it's GoogleDocs (great idea!), go ahead and use my bluesrat at gmail.com address.

It just hit me... wasn't that the thing that gave Sam his powers? Also, wasn't Winter Soldier involved with the Cosmic cube? Oh dear, this could get nasty.

Yeah, the Red Skull has historically been tied up with the Cosmic Cube, so of course it gets around through the Captain America continuity. It's one of those reality-shifting artifacts, so it can do whatever the writers feel like letting it do. Which means it could get even worse!

They should pit the Cosmic Cube against the Infinity Gauntlet...wait. That's not funny. That's been suggested in comics before.

Yeah, there seems to be a lot of recycling of plots lately. I will hope for the best, steel myself for the worst.

Did you ever get my email, btw?

Cheers

I did! And I just sent a stupidly long reply, which is why it took me so long.

I never say "Yes!" when paragraphs will do. You can tell me to shut up any time you like, and I will not take offense.

I have no actually relevant information regarding your question - just wanted to pop by and say that I liked your ficlet ^_^ The offscreen Jan!cameo was wonderful. And Steve's request rang very true - it makes for a good first step.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Question and a Ficlet

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

...and of course, my first thought was The Ultimates

Re: ...and of course, my first thought was The Ultimates

Re: ...and of course, my first thought was The Ultimates

Dr Strange learnt

This is a good link for Dr Stange

no subject

Woo, but doesn't Tony hate magic?

The Power of GUILT Compels Him!

Oh dear

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

Thank you!

Re: Thank you!

Dunno, myself

Re: Dunno, myself

Whoa, cosmic cube

Re: Whoa, cosmic cube

Lordy

Re: Lordy

no subject