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cap_ironman2011-01-17 11:47 pm
fictivore.livejournal.com) wrote in cap_ironman2011-01-17 11:47 pm
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New Avengers- Team Mom and Team Dad...
So, it seems quite common for fics set during the pre-Civil War New Avengers to refer to Steve and Tony as 'Mom and Dad' (especially where Peter is concerned ;)
But do they really fall into the Team Mom and Team Dad categories as described by TVTropes? And who is which, at that?
Team Mom: In an ensemble show, especially of the fighting kind, there needs to be someone to hold this Rag Tag Bunch Of Misfits together before they kill each other or wander off into the woods like so many Player Characters. The Team Mom basically acts as the mother figure for everyone else in the group, regardless of age or family relations. The Overprotective Dad or older brother can qualify for Team Mom...[].... Not always the leader in action or adventure, but the leader the team needs in everyday life and practical matters. Quells fights, makes sure everyone cleans behind their ears and eats their greens. Can be pretty bossy. Usually, they're gentle, cute, kind, and capable of Mama Bear type stern mothering (or papaing, even).
Team Dad: The opposite number to the Team Mom, more often than not the disciplinarian, lead-by-example-kind of character in contrast to the warm, nurturing tendencies of a Team Mom. The Team Dad is almost always the oldest member of the team and if he isn't the leader, then he's definitely the mentor, and in family-based teams, he is the father (or maybe the brother) of at least one member. He tends to be strict and gruff, but he never hesitates to put his life on the line for his team members and sometimes the facade might even crack and he'll show undisguised pride over his "kids".
If a team has a Team Mom and a Team Dad, expect them to either play a Good Cop Bad Cop routine on the rest of the team or come in conflict over their "parenting" philosophies. Cue "Mom and Dad are fighting" jokes from the "kids" if Team Mom and Team Dad aren't a couple, quickly followed by "It's not like that, we swear" from them (but they're very likely to end up together, anyway).
[Above 'definitions' taken from tvtropes.com]
So, Discussion! Do they really fit or not? :D?
Personally, I feel that by definition at least, Tony seems to be the Team Dad while Steve the Team Mom... o_O But the shipping tendencies thing? Definitely! ;D
But do they really fall into the Team Mom and Team Dad categories as described by TVTropes? And who is which, at that?
Team Mom: In an ensemble show, especially of the fighting kind, there needs to be someone to hold this Rag Tag Bunch Of Misfits together before they kill each other or wander off into the woods like so many Player Characters. The Team Mom basically acts as the mother figure for everyone else in the group, regardless of age or family relations. The Overprotective Dad or older brother can qualify for Team Mom...[].... Not always the leader in action or adventure, but the leader the team needs in everyday life and practical matters. Quells fights, makes sure everyone cleans behind their ears and eats their greens. Can be pretty bossy. Usually, they're gentle, cute, kind, and capable of Mama Bear type stern mothering (or papaing, even).
Team Dad: The opposite number to the Team Mom, more often than not the disciplinarian, lead-by-example-kind of character in contrast to the warm, nurturing tendencies of a Team Mom. The Team Dad is almost always the oldest member of the team and if he isn't the leader, then he's definitely the mentor, and in family-based teams, he is the father (or maybe the brother) of at least one member. He tends to be strict and gruff, but he never hesitates to put his life on the line for his team members and sometimes the facade might even crack and he'll show undisguised pride over his "kids".
If a team has a Team Mom and a Team Dad, expect them to either play a Good Cop Bad Cop routine on the rest of the team or come in conflict over their "parenting" philosophies. Cue "Mom and Dad are fighting" jokes from the "kids" if Team Mom and Team Dad aren't a couple, quickly followed by "It's not like that, we swear" from them (but they're very likely to end up together, anyway).
[Above 'definitions' taken from tvtropes.com]
So, Discussion! Do they really fit or not? :D?
Personally, I feel that by definition at least, Tony seems to be the Team Dad while Steve the Team Mom... o_O But the shipping tendencies thing? Definitely! ;D
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They bothe were the team mom and dad depending on the circonstances. like Tony won't be the one to lecture you if you miss practice but he is less nuturing than Steve so...
Steve was both the team mom and dad and Tony got lumped with him because they're seen as a unit weither you think they're a couple or not.
Or alternatively, Steve is the team parent and Tony is the cool uncle.
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I really don't think they're at all parental towards Wolverine, Sentry, Spider-Woman or Luke Cage.
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But no, if I had to choose, I'd go with what you said. I'm not sure I'd call Tony a disciplinarian (or even a particularly good leader--that definitely goes to Steve), but he's definitely less warm and fuzzy than Steve.
EDIT: Haha, self. Way to forget to hit submit for like two hours. I am awesome, obviously.
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Plus this X3
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And I LOVE that image... Especially Tony's civvies (I giess it'd be too difficult to lounge in armor? ;)... Where's it from. btw? (I assume ASM, but which issue?)
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Though for Tony as Team Dad... I was mostly thinking of how he's technically the one taking care of/providing for the 'family'... And how he's definitely the first one to put his life on the line for the team (The Onslaught Incident). And his relationship with Peter, is certainly Team Dad in most respects, from what I've seen...
And Steve being nurturing, I guess, from his handling of fake!Jessica Drew and that time Carol comes to visit...
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And yeah, the idea of *anyone* trying to parent Wolverine... is disturbing to say the least... o_O But Jessica? Well, I thought the whole thing on how Cap handled her 'spying' issues, was remarkably parent like (sort of strict mom?) Same for how, Cap and Tony push Luke forward to leadership roles (in the Impact Superheroing thing)... As for Sentry, he really didn't really have too many sane appearances in NA, but then there was that issue with Doom and Tony in MA, instead...
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Steve took a stern, no-nonsense approach to a team member who was a triple agent whose keeping of secrets came this close to killing him. (Nick Fury is a far better example of a parental figure to Jessica Drew.) And while I would definitely like to have seen more of Cap mentoring Luke in making the jump from street-level hero to member and future leader of Avengers teams, mentoring is not parenting.
Honestly, it seems like you're taking standard team leadership and presenting it as parental behaviour, which I don't think is accurate.
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Is there a TVTropes entry for a Danny-Rusty type relationship? There must be but I can't think of one off the top of my head.
Semi-relatedly, the line about how Dad is supposed to be 'strict and gruff' reminds me that fanfic-Steve is a lot more cuddly than comics-Steve. Is this a slash thing? Because I've never seen drill-sergeant Steve in fic while I've seen it at least twice in comics, and I spend a lot less time reading comics.
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Tony: You know you want me, come here...
Steve: Hm.... I... no.
And Tony's arm is practically stretched as far as it will go... and he's still nooooot-quiiiiiite-touching Steve! D=
But maybe it's just my blurry vision playing tricks on me. Nobody else sees this, right? D=
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And as for the Danny/Rusty relationship... I don't recall ever seeing a trope like it. Mebbe it's time to make one. 8D
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A for Tony, I see him more of an uncle type too since he supplies the Avengers with all sorts of cool stuff but he's not exactly the nurturing worrying advice type either (unless you're a good friend or someone he really, really likes like Steve).
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What books are the Nick and Jessica interaction though? Sound interesting... :)
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Though what's the deal with O'Grady? Isn't he really young?
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And that's the problem with O'Grady, ever since his run on Irredeemable Ant-Man (and irredeemable was on the title for a reason) he's been this gigantic douche. For every good thing he did, he would undo it in a second with the most gigantic horrible thing! Like for example when his best friend dies, he takes his Ant-Man suit and then romances and seduces his dead friend's girlfriend, they have sex, she becomes pregnant and Eric abandons her. So yeah it's one step forward and four steps back and into a hole! But after being in the Thunderbolts during Dark Reign he feels bad about the things he did with them and in Captain America: Reborn he helps Steve from custody and then asks him to keep that in mind in the future.
So yeah Steve remembers and he goes to him and gives him a second chance, and tells him he believes that Eric can be a better person, and now he's part of the SA although everyone else really doesn't like him (but hey when Steve believes in you! You just have to give it a try).
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