cap_ironman | Cap_Ironman Weekly News, Week Ending 20 August 2012

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Cap_Ironman Weekly News, Week Ending 20 August 2012

Hello and welcome to the weekly

cap_ironman/

cap_ironman newsletter.

Reminder: Cap/Iron Man Big Bang drafts and summaries are due 31 August. See

c_im_bigbang for details.

I would also like to thank each and everyone of you for being so great about using the mandatory header elements and/or the suggested header. You make modding a joy.

Marvel Solicits for November are out, including the new Cap and IM titles, and a new team of Avengers Assemble (which has both). If you're wondering why half of them have NOW! in the copy, check out CBR's rundown on Marvel Now! (the totally not in anyway a relaunch that the company's doing this fall).

In movie news, Avengers 2 has a release day. start your calendar countdowns for 1 May 2015.

Stand alone films are casting women for things, which is always nice to see. Over here, Rebecca Hall says a bit about her turn as Maya Hansen in IM3, and there's some casting speculation here for who's to be the leading lady in Cap 2.

Finally, Marvel.com's up to Part Nine of its complete history of Iron Man.

Anyone else here sign up for

avengersfest? I hate waiting for assignments to go out. It makes me so nervous. Only five more days.

Art and Mixes

whipbogard drew Steve/Tony Art Spamage

marian_leywald drew Several S/T NSFW Pictures

airwaveeight made the fanmix Girl!Tony – Head Bitch in Charge

Fic

bladeofnebula wrote Coffee into Theorems

random_fangurl wrote Tryin to Throw Your Arms Around the World

_samalander wrote Love You Hard and Let You Go

anne_higgins wrote In my Dreams... and Who's Been Sleeping in my Bed?

finding_jay wrote Soft Tony, Warm Tony, Little Ball of Iron

cauldronofdoom wrote The Present is Based on the Past and Mob VersePart Eight: Mission Planning and Part Nine: Victory Conditions

aviss wrote As Light as a Butterfly's Touch

kiyaar wrote Rusted Wheel, or How the Civil War Might Have Ended

ramsaybaggins wrote Memories Forever

tresmaxwell wrote The Altar of Human Sacrifice: Chapter Four

aubkae wrote many names in history, none of them are ours: chapter six of eight

Other Stuff

slashersivi introduced themselves and suggested a plotbunny

elainemalfoy made a Steve/Tony Friending Meme

Finally, if you're a new or recent member, hello and welcome! Our rules are here, and in the profile; this includes our warnings policy, so please read. If you're interested in the ship, you may want to read the Ship Manifesto, and consult the list of Slashy Moments (Now at one hundred and eighty moments). If you're planning to write for the comm, there are some tips on writing the pairing here, and the Avengers in general here; if you're having trouble finding a beta, or would like to offer your services as a beta, our beta list is here. If you're looking for the comm archive, it's Tales of Suspense, and it's automated - you can create an account and upload your fic. If you're looking for a particular story, why not try

cap_im_finders? If you have any questions, you can comment here or PM a mod, that's me,

garrideb and

valtyr.

And feel free to post on-topic or off-topic stuff in the comments to this post! Just keep it reasonably safe for work, please.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

So how does everyone feel about new writers for Cap and Iron Man? I was personally kind of hot and cold on Brubaker's Cap but I generally have bad taste and I only started reading back on issue 9 so maybe I'm just terrible. But yeah, new writers good y/n? Also the AvX event is apparently wrapping up soon which I personally cannot frickin' wait for.

~~I don't know anyone else who reads the comics that I can talk about it with which is why I tried to start a discussion here... OTL~~

I didn't sign up for avengersfest but I did sign up for the big bang and I'm dyin' ha ha! Almost dropped out at least 3 times.

Personally, I'm pretty hot on the new writers (I've never read anything by either that I haven't liked immensely). The new artists aren't my favourite, but what can you do?

I liked a lot of parts of Bru's Cap run. He wrote a good Sam (especially in interacting with Bucky), and his plots were often very good. I found his Steve a little on the humourless side, and his treatment of Sharon Carter frequently royally pissed me off. Remender is an interesting choice; he tends to noir as well, but his stories are... well they're funnier. They're more adventure, and less introspection, which I think the new book is going for.

Fraction's run has been controversial. I didn't care for it, and half my flist HATES IT WITH BURNING FIRE and the other half thinks it's THE GREATEST COMIC GOD HAS GIVEN US. Not really any middle ground. (please don't flame creators here)

Gillen, from what I've read of him, does a lot of mythology stuff, a lot of slightly ott, larger than life tales of blood, triumph and deep bonds between people. His plots are clever, unexpected, and not always happy. It's worked really well on the books where the main character is a god, which is probably why he was picked for Iron Man -g- I'm really curious to see what he does with it.

Yeah, I'm not super excited by either of them but then, I haven't read anything they've worked on since I only read about 3 series by Marvel consistently.

Yeah, I found his Steve to be pretty serious(maybe even too serious?) too though I agree with you, his plots generally were fairly good. Ughhh Sharon Carter. I like her as a character but Bru's treatment of her definitely annoyed me. It was like...if Cap needed her for something she was important but as soon as he didn't need her to do X she just faded into the background. I know it's not Captain America and Agent 13 but she's his partner, you'd think that she would be more to him(even if I find their relationship Freudian and creepy) than just an errand girl. So yeah, looking forward to Remender because for all I like serious, MY PARENTS ARE DEAAAAD stories, that gets old pretty quickly. Hopefully he treats Sharon a bit better or just does away with her as Cap's girl if he can't commit to making her a fully fleshed out character. :/

I haven't read any of Fraction's run, but yeahhh I've heard it's pretty polarizing. Gillen sounds interesting from what you said! I might have to pick up a few issues of the new Iron Man because that sounds up my alley though my wallet will be crying.

What are your three titles?

Right now I'm reading Daredevil, Captain Marvel, Astonishing X-Men and Ult Comics Spider-Man.

I agree with your assessment of Sharon. I thought their relationship in the Waid run was pretty interesting, and she had her own thing going on, but the early Lee stuff was creepy with the stalking, and Bru doesn't treat her as much more than the obligatory Action Girl GF. Plus the brainwashed pregnancy plot around CW really creeped me out. I like a lot of what Bru's done, but sometimes his treatment of female characters is a little creepy to me.

I'm reading Cap, Spider-Men, Captain Marvel, and I may pick up Astonishing X-Men because I really like what Liu did for Black Widow so I'll probably end up reading it... I effing love Captain Marvel though, oh god. I'm such a sucker for female lead books where they don't draw the woman wearing next to nothing and high heels and act like she's empowered ha ha.

Yeah, I heard about the stalking thing and I was really weirded out...Like...Steve I think you now how to woo a lady by now and it's not stalking her. Oh god whattttt. I haven't heard of THAT. That's incredibly gross jesus christ who thought that was okay!? D: I wish they would like...submit that shit to female readers or something and ask "ladies, is this creepy?" because apparently (some)dudes can't catch that on their own. IDK, I feel like Marvel is not as good about women characters(aside from Carol rn) as DC(though DC can be equally stupid) and it's really irritating? Why won't you just let me give you money, Marvel? I would gladly give you it if you gave me a Black Widow solo title where she zipped up her damn suit and didn't play second fiddle to Winter Soldier(though I've heard she's pretty ok in WS) all the time.

I've really liked Astonishing so far. I got it because I adored Liu on BW and on X-23, so I figured what the hell. I've had a little trouble keeping up with who all the characters are, as I'm not hugely familiar with recent X-Titles, but it's staying out of the Events, and mostly the main characters are people I know. Great humour and angst.

Captain Marvel has been SO GOOD. OMG! It's my second favourite book right now, after Daredevil (and I only like that better because I'm super invested in the longer-running plots, CM may over take it yet). As you say, it's really nice not to have to put up with another Kate Beaton Strong Female Character.

Short version: Dr. Faustes brainwashed Sharon into sleeping with Steve (they weren't together at the time due to being on opposing sides of CW) so that she would become pregnant and... something something Armin Zola, Red Skull using the baby for something. Sharon broke the brain control and aborted her foetus by stabbing herself in the stomach. There was no part of that storyline that wasn't skeevy on every level. The fact that Steve had slept with Sharon without her consent was never dealt with (he was dead for a while there, but they just got back together like nothing happened when he came back). I think now everyone's moved on to pretending it never happened.

A creep factor check would be really nice. Especially if it would stop DC from havign White Power Rings and marking Africa "Ape Controlled"

DC and Marvel... hmmm. Honestly? I think I've spent equal amounts of time pissed off at them about these things, probably slightly more at DC, really *cough*Steph*cough* I mean, it's not like Identity Crisis was the height of feminist good taste. I would have said DC came out slightly ahead before the relaunch, but they've wiped out so many heroines with that, and Marvel's brought back Wanda and Jean (sort of) that I figure they're about even right now.

DC does have more titles led by women (Batwoman, Batgirl, BoP, Supergirl, Catwoman (real winner there) and Wonder Woman (ditto)) than Marvel does (Captain Marvel, soon Red She-Hulk, soon Journey into Mystery), but less female creators (Simone, Nocenti and soon Marx to Liu, DeConnick, Immonan, Rios and Pichelli). Does DC have any women drawing for them? They scared off Amy Reeder :(

Yeah, I really liked the one issue I've read though I'm definitely having trouble keeping up with the characters as well since I haven't been into X-Men since the cartoon.

CM is my second favourite as well behind Batwoman(this may or may not be because I have a huge crush on Kate Kane)but it definitely is. Kelly Sue is doing such a bang up job, I am singing her praises all over Tumblr and getting angry at stupid fan letters.

Oh my god...That is totally fukin creepy! And oh...DC...What are you even doing.........Did no one stop and think for two seconds about that? For real.

Lol yeah, I hear a lot of people are pissed off about Steph. I didn't get into DC until after the N52 had already been in effect for awhile but it sucks that they've basically just NOPE'd everyone that isn't Barbara Gordon though I do like her. As a new reader I'm pretty ignorant about things both sides have done but I'm so happy Wanda is back. She's one of my favourites(maybe because I think she's pretty and her powers are cool??) despite the whole mutant genocide thing.

Yeah, that's true...I'm not sure that they do. I know they have Gail Simone as a WRITER but I have no idea about artists. I rarely pay attention to that kind of thing to be honest.

I really like Batwoman, but it's probably behind DD, CM and Saucer Country for me. If it were still Rucka writing, it'd be #1 for sure, but as gorgeous as JH3's art is, I don't think the writing is quite as good to knock it into top notch for me. It's still one of the best comics out there though!

I don't know, man. You just look at some of their gaffs and are like, "....REALLY? No one thought THAT was a bad idea? Really?"

Prior to DCnU, I was reading Booster Gold (in trade) and Batgirl. I decided to try some of the new comics with the relaunch, but now I'm down to Batwoman, Demon Knights, Saucer Country and picking up Sword of Sorcery in the fall. A lot of the reboots just changed too many things for me to like (Batgirl, Blue Beetle, Storm Watch), and I haven't enjoyed the writing one a lot more. Still, I'm reading more titles than I was? IDK. I follow Paul Cornell where he goes.

Yeah, I really liked Rucka on Batwoman-Elegy was amazing. I don't mind JH3's writing all that much(probably due to aforementioned big damn crush on Kate) but I can see where one would be disappointed to go from Rucka to JH3! Elegy was amazing so I loved that they kept her backstory the same-I was totally baffled as to why she was so anal about finding those kids until I read Elegy and then it hit that duh, she's been a victim of kidnapping as child and wants to minimize the damage the poor bastards got. It's too bad that Alice was killed off, I'd have liked to see more of her.

I know, right? It's like they were totally drunk while they thought it up but then never actually looked it over with a sober mind...

I still read Batgirl(considering I didn't get into it until after the reboot) but I hate what they did with Stormwatch. I've only read part of The Authority but new Stormwatch is just...bad but not in a funny way. The thing that just got me right away was the costume redesigns. Poor Midnighter LOL. I tried to get into BG but I really don't know enough about JL or any of the other characters for it to make any kind of sense to me(kind of like how I started reading capironman comic fic before I knew anyone other than them...) so I dropped it but yeah, I'm getting into more series now as well. I'll have to check out Paul Cornell, expand my horizons a bit ha ha!

JH3 is fine. He's just not Rucka, you know? And that last arc with all the changing timelines did not do well in floppie. I'm sure in the trade it was great, but I was left wondering wtf was going on for most of it. Have you read 52? That's her origin, to some extent. The quality varies a bit, and I have ISSUES with some of the storylines, but overall it's a really cool concept, and very well put together. I'd rec the trades, which have issue by issue commentary on how the story was put together. And Renee's arc is fucking fantastic. There's one of the best moments for any woman in comics ever towards the end. (Though to REALLY appreciate Renee's arc, you should also read Gotham Central, too (if you haven't already), which is totally worth it anyway. It's Rucka and Brubaker doing a Street Level PoV on what it's like to live in the same city as the Batclan.)

Poor Stormwatch. Lol. The costumes are so terrible. I moderately liked the first run, but then they had that awful fill in and the new writer just isn't what I wanted. I liked a lot of Authority, but it also was pretty failtastic at times. BG is pretty heavily canon reliant. What you really should do is go back and get the pulp reissues of the original run of Justice League International by J.M. DeMatteis and Keith Giffen, then get "Formerly Known As The Justice League" and "I Can't Believe It's Not The Justice League" by same. Because OMG! COMEDY GOLD! I don't know if I've ever laughed so hard in all my life.

Giffen and Rogers run on Blue Beetle (the first run with Jaime), it also really an amazing comic. Just solid all around, wonderful character, wonderfully storytelling. If you can come out of it without hearts in your eyes, I'd do a Turing Test to make sure I'm not talking to a bot.

Paul Cornell! He got me into comics. Captain Britain and MI:13 was the first Marvel title I picked up, and I never looked back. What a run that one was. FAIZA IS MY FAVOURITE!

Clearly I just like talking about comics I love. THERE'S SO MANY! That's why shitty comics are so depressing. I KNOW how good they can be.

Ha ha ha yeah, I know what you mean. Yeahhhhhh that last arc was really bad for flopping around and I admit I did NOT like that about it :/. I haven't but I really should-I'm slowly but surely accumulating digital versions of all of Batwoman's stories. I'll definitely check all of those out, thank you for the reccs! ;a;

Lol TA was so bad sometimes-I almost dropped it because I was just...not so keen on it but Midnighter and Apollo saved it for me and I grew to like the other characters a lot too. Jenny Sparks(did they have to go with sparks considering she electrocutes things oh my lord) is pretty bloody amazing. I will do that! A lot of people say how awesome BG is but yeah, considering I know next to nothing I just wasn't seeing it but I'll take your advice cause I do love a good comedy.

I know what you mean, Young Avengers was the first comic I ever picked up so I'll always have a special place in my heart for it though I started my current major stint in comics with Brubaker's Cap :'). But I'll definitely look into everything you recommended, I can always do with more comics in my life.

Lol well I like to listen to people talk about stuff they so it works out well. I have that problem with television for example Glee I was so disappointed in. Could've had it aaaalll etc. I think that that's the saddest thing. When you know something could be great but along the way someone just messes it up and you're left with the outer shell of awesome to an otherwise crappy show/book/comic/movie.

I'm sure it will read better in trade, when you can get it all at once.

I admit to being into TA mainly for A/M, but I really liked Jenny and Jenny (their last names were because of their powers, iirc), and Swift and Angie were pretty good too. Could take or leave Jack and the Doctor usually irritated me.

Go, read JLI, then ship Boostle! They're one of my favourite slash pairings.

Oh, god. Glee. Your feelings are my feelings :(

Yeah, that might be true. I re-read the arc when it finished and it made a bit more sense but it was still floppy as all hell lol.

Ha ha ha I'm totally the same, I can't even lie. They were fabulous. :') Oh, okay, that makes it less silly then(but still kind of silly). Yes! Angie was amazing as well but yeah, I feel the same about Jack and The Doctor. Didn't really care much for either of them and I was always kind of confused about Jack's powers when I first started reading.

Omg Boostle ha ha aka the saddest slash fandom in the world. I follow someone on Tumblr who reblogs Boostle and pretty much just convinces me to ship it with that alone even though I know that I'm in for sadness(which is okay because I'm totally a fan of giving myself sad feelings!).

I think that's like...almost everyone's feelings on Glee, sadly. I loved Santana in the last season(yes, there is a pattern to the characters I end up liking ha ha ha) but the whole Finchel marriage thing just weirded me out. You're kids, you don't need to get married yet omg!

Did you read the DnA arc where Apollo couldn't go to earth and Jenny was gone and everyone was so SAD and then THEY FIXED IT? I am so amazingly fond of that whole run, for real. I pretty much posted the whole thing to my DW so I could fawn over it to excess.

Boostle is pretty sad at times (interestingly, I got into Steve/Tony when Steve was dead and Tony was melting his brain. The first major fics I wrote for both fandoms were fixits). However, I'm mostly in that pairing for the humour and h/c Piosonivory's stuff, for example, is mostly set pre-death and plays up those aspects. That's how I got into the pairing. I only found out about the delicious, delicious tragedy (that can go away now, seriously) later.

You did better than me. I bailed back in season one.

I'M READING IT CURRENTLY. Oh god. My heart. Just...I died a little bit when Midnighter went up onto the carrier and Apollo was just like "that attitude will kill you" and he just ahhhhh and Midnighter says he wishes Apollo were here and my heart just broke into tiny pieces I'm so happy they fixed it(not spoilers cause I already knew they would xD). They're my favourite because they're just...so violent and then they go home and say sappy things to each other and watch TV together. Their relationship is what I aspire to have(sans the violently murdering people bit) someday ha ha ha!

(Oh jeez, I'm so overly fond of Cap that I cannot read the issues where he dies lol. I would probably cry but I so do not blame you for writing fixits. They are beautiful things, fixits.) Yeah, I've heard that they're a pretty humourous couple and from what I've seen of scans they are derpy as hell and I love that.

You were the smart one then! I mostly stuck in it for Brittany then later Santana then later them together. Don't know if I'll continue watching this year since I'm sure there will be other shows out there to capture my interest that aren't terrible.

IT GETS WORSE! IT GETS SO MUCH WORSE! YOUR HEART WILL SHATTER! God I love that run. Seriously.

They are the best though. I love their family and how well they work together. Bloody reboot! I was at least looking forward to them starting over and slowly falling in love, which is what Cornell was doing, but then it just skipped to them being a couple and no falling in love and MEH!

OH NO BUT WHERE WILL I KEEP MY TEARS?! I totally creeped on your DW negl and saw the scans you posted and ahhhhhhhhhh!!! ~~I also noticed you are also from Canada what a coincidence.~~

Yes! I loved that they had Jenny and it was totally normal, no one kicked up a fuss, they just all were like yeah...yeah you guys should probably take her and it'll be great. That's what I loved about the original comic-it wasn't a big deal that they were gay, they just were. It was just so fabulous and I've seen scans from the new one and just ugh. Yes. It would have been a beautiful thing to see them falling in love because we didn't get to see that originally? But w/e, w/e. :'c

These are my feelings about Glee too! It could have been great! There was so much potential! And then it became SO AWFUL. Interspersed with moments that remind you you love the characters so you can't quit. You just want to take them away from their writers and all the character slander. (Which, coincidentally, is how I feel about comics much of the time.) I finally bailed after S2, mostly because I wasn't really watching tv when S3 started and then what I heard made me not want to. Good way of quitting.

One of my friends is currently rewriting S3, she was that disgusted by it. I basically asked for the cliffnotes of what happened in the season and that was enough to kill any thoughts I was having about catching up with it to find out what happened with Brittana.

Yes! I watched for the songs but then they started doing mostly newer songs and I hate most new musicgod damn new fangled autotune you kids and your pitbull *shakes cane* so...yeah. Then it was just...watching for the characters until finally with the whole marriage thing I was like nope, I'm outtie.

Ha ha ha wow, that's dedication! :'DD Brittana was the only good pairing left other than Mike and Tina who were pretty good. But the main pairings I didn't care about at all.

Yeah, for me the relationship between Steve and Sharon Cater is kind of creepy on a fundamental conceptual level anyway, but the whole mindwash/pregnancy/miscarriage storyline particularly bothers me, because how is it healthy to go from that kind of trauma, on both sides, to just leaping right back into a relationship without even really talking about it? It also doesn't ring that true with how much guilt Sharon had over "killing" Steve, even if she was brain washed - I don't think that feeling would be wiped out because she helped bring him back, especially not when he went through that whole time stream incident. Felt to me like she was basically being used as a character of convenience - manipulated into being a plot device, but rather than deal with the emotional fallout, she needs to go right back to being Steve's girlfriend, because Cap should get the girl.

/random weighing in!

I know what you mean about the basic notion of Steve and Sharon having a relationship being just a bit off-putting without my being able to quite articulate why.

Well for me it's like... the whole basic premise is that Steve's initial interest in Sharon was because she is Peggy Carter's niece. Sharon looks like a carbon copy of young Peggy in the comics. They have basically the same job. So from Sharon's side, she is doing the job her aunt did and dating the guy her aunt was in love with, which makes me wonder what is going through her head. Especially since Peggy is still alive, if not 100% lucid. How weird would that be for her? When it gets to that extent it is less like normal admiration for Peggy and more like she is trying to BE her. And on Steve's side... how long would it take to stop conflating Sharon with Peggy? It is just never a good idea, or fair, to date someone because they remind you of someone else. And if they are related, that just makes it even creepier. For me, anyway.

Disclaimer, I haven't actually read the early comics yet, so this is based off flashbacks in more modern comics and things I have picked up via fandom osmosis, so details or nuances could be wrong here. Particularly around Sharon's mindset, because I don't know much about her early characterization.

Randomly weighing in on your random weighing in :D

I have read the early Cap run where we first see Sharon and it was pretty creepy from his side (He also made RIck Jones dress like Bucky because he thought THEY looked alike. Stan Lee!Steve, Man; he had issues). From her side? She wasn't initially very interested. She was just kind of scooting along doing her job like her older sister had (there was only a twenty year time gap at that point, which lead to a really different feel to Steve waking up). Steve proposed to her before he even knew her name, at one point (he never knew Peggy's name either). She was like, lol, no. But he ended up kind of pestering her into dating him. It was really kind of this odd '60s thing.

Then there was this Englehart retcon in the early '70s where Sharon had join SHIELD just to date Steve. Which was subsequently ignored by everyone because a) creepy and b) it didn't make sense: she would already have been an agent before he woke up.

I liked her a lot more when she came back from the dead in the mid '90s, and kind of had her own thing going on that wasn't entirely Steve centric.

tl:dr: The '60s Steve/Sharon was creepy too.

... I think the only response to this is to go, "oh, COMICS", and to confirm that I will always, always find Steve/Sharon creepy. It's hard to come back from a start like that and I don't change my mind easily if I don't like a pairing to start with (particularly when I ship at least one of the characters with someone else, I.e. Steve/Tony), not that they're even trying really. But also because I just can't get enthusiastic about the idea of a pairing where most of the time one character is treated like their only purpose is to be a love interest to the other character. I think in this kind of setting you generally either need a situation where two characters are created at the same time with the idea that they'll be in a relationship and they both get developed, even if they don't get equal focus, or two characters are independently created and developed and through the vagaries of plot end up interacting with each other and getting into a relationship (or fandom deciding they should be in a relationship) (also, assuming there is no gross character assassination at this point). I just don't tend to get into characters created purely to be a love interest. Which is a generalisation, sometimes that can be done really well, but here? Not so much.

Tl;dr, I would like Sharon a lot better if she did not exist solely for Steve to have a girlfriend on hand. Like if she were single, and not only in a way that is about Steve getting her back. Or if she is in a relationship that is also not about Steve getting jealous and then getting her back.

you know what I thought might be interesting during dead Steve arc? Sam/Sharon. But if it ever happened in canon it would probably be all about Steve somehow. :(

Stan Lee wasn't really great at writing women back in the day.

One of the reasons that I like Waid's Sharon is that she spends most of her time in that era dealing with her position in SHIELD and picking fights with Nick Fury, and less dating Steve, and when they are together, it's a fun buddy cop sort of thing (except for that awful Jergans issue where they're in Antarctica, which makes both of them kind of look like dicks.)

I tend to like love interest characters, and one thing I like about Steve is that he's had a lot of great ones, and (until Brubaker offed Peggy) none of them died on him. IDK. I guess I like heroes (especially Steve) trying to date civilians. I think it's an interesting conflict and we get a lot of great secondary female characters in for the deal, like Bernie and Rabecca for Steve and Beth and Rumiko for Tony.

I see what you mean though, especially regarding Sharon. I'm hoping she does better under Gillen than she did with Brubaker writing her.

Sam/Sharon could have been really interesting (or Sam/Bucky, I thought they were a great team). Maybe we'll get an Agents of SHILED comic someday staring Carter, Hill and Hand, with Black Widow and Pepper Potts guest staring.

That does sound more likable, yes.

In fairness, I actually do like a lot of "love interest" style characters so long as the relationship is really compelling. It's hard if you don't like the relationship, though, because that is basically what the character is THERE for. It's better when they get developed beyond just their involvement with the other character, though. And I haven't seen much of Rumiko, but I do appreciate what I know of her.

A SHIELD agent series could be really good! I would love to see those characters interact as a team. That would be a great lineup of women who can kick your arse without superpowers.

And all this is the reason why I will be VERY SAD when they inevitably introduce Sharon in the second cap movie. I wonder if they will try to make it less creepy somehow. (Well, they can cut out the stalking and the clone-like resemblance factors, but the "oh hey, I was in love with your (great) aunt, us having a relationship would be an awesome plan!" thing is hard to get around.)

I'm hoping they make it non-creepy too, though I'm not sure how they'll manage it. They did such a great job with Film!Peggy though that I have some faith in them not to make a total hash of it. /power of positive thinking

I did love movie Peggy, yes! And I am hoping that the movies will keep kicking goals of awesomeness. The only way I can conceive of the introduction of Sharon to the MCU being awesome rather than creepy, though, is if she and Steve had a platonic friends/partners style relationship. Which you could maybe read feelings into if you wanted, but didn't have to. At least for more than the space of one movie, so you could feel like their relationship was in spite of her relationship to Peggy, rather than because of it. I am fairly conscious of Hollywood's love of a spotlight romance in its blockbusters, thought, so I'm trying not to get my hopes too high.

The only way I can conceive of the introduction of Sharon to the MCU being awesome rather than creepy, though, is if she and Steve had a platonic friends/partners style relationship.

I HOPE THEY DO THIS. I'm worried most about that --- the Hollywood Imperative to force a romance on the main character. I don't think it will work for Steve. Not yet. Not even after Avengers. He's too lost. Those outtakes from Avengers... so sad for Steve. He needs more time to adjust.

I'd honestly rather see them make Black Widow/Winter Soldier the romance focus rather than shoe-horn in Sharon for Steve. *-_-*

I agree Steve isn't ready yet, the wound in Avengers from losing what he had with Peggy before it really began was obviously still raw. I don't see him in a place to start a romantic relationship with anyone yet, least of all her relative.

I'd honestly rather see them make Black Widow/Winter Soldier the romance focus rather than shoe-horn in Sharon for Steve.

I WOULD BE ALL OVER THAT LIKE WHITE ON RICE. Part of me wants Clint/Nat in movie verse, despite the Clint mostly being zombie!Clint, just because the interactions they did have were so intense, and so where Natasha's feelings about Clint. On the other hand, I really love Bucky/Natasha in the comics, and would kind of love to see it in the movies too, especially as an alternative to Steve/Sharon.

Just saying, MCU, if you have joy in your souls...

Random comment agreeing with you but YES oh my god. I started reading Brubaker's Cap from the beginning after I picked up issue 9(I have a weakness for deserumed Steve, what can I say) and liked it and from the first frickin' issue I was like CREEPY CREEPY CREEPY. The flashbacks showing Peggy as pretty much the exact same character and face and everything as Sharon just grossed me out. I too wonder what the hell Sharon is thinking-she has to know that she looks almost exactly like Peggy and acts exactly like Peggy. I'm also very interested in seeing her mindset on that.

Excellently articulated! Yes, that's pretty much what I feel. Like I need to poke Sharon and Steve and say, "hey guys, this is not a solid basis for a healthy relationship." And the whole brainwashing/miscarriage thing just makes it worse. And everyone should be watching them saying "Yeah, that's never gonna work out."

omg thank you! I agree, that storyline surrounding Sharon and Steve's death was so skeevy all the way through and there has not been nearly enough fall out from that between them. Not. Nearly. Enough. TONY got tons of fall out, not Sharon. (No wonder Tony/Steve is easier to ship...)

Thank you thank you everyone here for all this lucid meta of Sharon too and her *cough* problematic relationship with Steve.

I want to like her far more than I end up doing more often then not... aside from my rage-induced OH PLEASE moment from Secret Avengers where the villain LEAVES HANK MCCOY behind just to kidnap only Sharon BECAUSE she is Cap's girlfriend. And then she is tied up in BDSM ways and displayed to Steve. Who, of course, goes all heroically RAWR MUST SAVE MAH WOMAN (his "I don't have to beat you personally my friends will" moment doesn't quite save this mess of a storyline for me either), even though fake!Fury is all "I want to recruit her, she's badass", they certainly don't treat her that way.

*sigh* I have feelings about Sharon, most of them not good... through little fault of hers, honestly.

/moar random weighing in

Edited 2012-08-23 20:16 (UTC)

Yeah, the lack of fall-out is just... What even was that, you guys. :/ And I definitely approve of Tony fallout! Even if I feel like it could have been done a lot better. Like if Fraction hadn't decided to delete CW from Tony's brain. Or if that had to happen, if the Steve-Tony interaction and Tony characterisation could be consistent from book to book. It seems like writers don't know how to react and there is no editing edict from on high, because far as I can tell some of them act like both brain delete and Steve death didn't happen (both parties are still angry and arguing about what Tony did, neither bring up that he can't remember it, despite that Tony shouldn't be in such a defensive place if he can't remember being mad and just has facts and one of those facts is STEVE DIED and also, you cloned Thor and it was a bad idea) or they act like nothing happened, period.

I would also REALLY like some fallout from Steve died, Tony fell apart. Even if Tony doesn't remember and Steve doesn't want to watch his own funeral, Tony would have found out it happened, and somebody like Carol (or Hill maybe) would have mentioned the crazy person decline to Steve when he came back, surely? It seems unfair that Steve died and Tony was wrecked by it but we never got any kind of resolution for that.

On that note, is this an appropriate time to mention that I'm really enjoying your pre-Heroic Age fic on AO3?

... Wow, this kind of got sidetracked from Sharon, hey. Oh well. I think we all agree that the treatment of her is problematic, to say the least. I did rather enjoy the ironically titled Captain America and the Secret Avengers, though, where there was like a total three panels of Steve and he was doing paperwork because Sharon told him he was not needed for the arse-kicking. XD it was more about Natasha than Sharon overall, but it was a good issue for "ladies kicking arse, dudes need not apply."

I haven't said it recently, but it should be said: THANK YOU for the wonderful job you do! These weekly round-ups are much appreciated and make me feel very informed.

You're most welcome. I'm really glad that people like this comm. We try to be welcoming and helpful to new people (and old people, and all people :D ).

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Cap_Ironman Weekly News, Week Ending 20 August 2012

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