ext_141292 ([identity profile] caduceus03.livejournal.com) wrote in [community profile] cap_ironman2008-09-19 05:23 pm

Canon questions and possible beta request

Hello, newbie here!

So I got linked to [info]elspethdixon and [livejournal.com profile] seanchai 's Classic-verse, loved it, promptly read through all their stories, discovered [livejournal.com profile] crimsonquills was in the fandom and devoured all her stories, and then came over to the comm to start exploring. Phew - be proud of yourselves: you guys totally sucked me in to the Steve/Tony.

So my request: I always promised myself not to write in a fandom where I'm not familiar with the source material. Unfortunately, I have several plotbunnies that won't leave me alone, but no time to to read decades worth of canon backlog. So I was hoping some lovely person would be willing to be my beta and help me with canon details and check characterization. I'm a fairly slow and non-prolific writer, so it wouldn't be a huge time drain, I don't think. Or at the least, would you guys answer a few questions I have at the moment?

1) What exactly was Tony's relationship with his parents, especially his father? I've picked up vague suggestions that it wasn't exactly a congenial relationship, but could someone explain it a bit more to me?

2) I saw one of my fellow newbie's questions about when the Avengers found out about Tony being Iron Man, but when did they find out about his heart problems?

3) About the Extremis and cancer... errr, is that just comic book pseudoscience? All I've been able to find is the scan in the comments here which doesn't really explain anything and Wikipedia's entry that says that "the Extremis enhancement speeds up a person's repair process and hence the body's cells died and regenerated at a faster rate. This effectively made Tony Stark immune to cancer and gave him his 'healing factor'." I'm curious because I'm pretty sure that that mechanism would actually make Tony more susceptible to cancer (I could be wrong, I'm only a medical student, but I think that would be the case). Any other info from the comics regarding the subject?

Thanks!



[identity profile] geuna.livejournal.com 2008-09-20 01:02 am (UTC)(link)
Well, I can't really answer very well for the first two, because I'm not totally sure (as far as I know his relationship with his parents is pretty vague).

Extremis, basically, looks at his brain for a "blue-print" of what his body is supposed to be like. For example, when he first got Extremis, he re-grew his heart because (while he lacked one at the time) Extremis saw it was in his "blue-prints". At another point a whole chunk of his hell is cut off, but due to Extremis it grew back within two days.

If he got something like cancer, I would assume Extremis would identify it as a foreign object and fight it off. Though I could be wrong, that's my opinion. He is susceptible to computer viruses designed to affect his Extremis, however.

[identity profile] geuna.livejournal.com 2008-09-20 03:02 am (UTC)(link)
Well, if it's cancer, maybe it could be cancer of the brain. Maybe he has a tumor pressing against something that's important for Extremis to function? Or perhaps bio-engineered virus/cancer designed by an enemy in order to destroy him! XD Love the icon, btw.

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[identity profile] simmysim.livejournal.com 2008-09-20 01:06 am (UTC)(link)
Howard Stark is shown as abusive/just cold to Tony, it depends on the writer. Some spin it like Howard just wanted Tony to be prepared for the cold hard world, and in some he tried to get 5 year old Tony drunk :? Maria is shown as kind and/or a total dishrag, depends on the writer again.

[identity profile] mardahin.livejournal.com 2008-09-20 01:44 am (UTC)(link)
RE: the cancer issue (to attempt to hand-wave/rationalize the comic-book science)

I think the reason that Extremis is credited with making Tony immune to cancer is tied to how Extremis works. In canon, the Extremis nano-virus rewrites the part of the brain which controls involuntary functions (among other things) and actually gives the body a new blueprint for its "normal". Thus, Tony's system has a hard-wired "right/wrong" analysis running in relation to any of his given cell-types at any given time, and thus any cancerous cells (b/c technically, cancer is just when you get an abnormal cell that goes gung ho and replicates like it's on crack, at least that's my general lay understanding for the classification of carcinoma) get noticed and addressed by the CPU that was (more or less) installed in the maintenance part of Tony's brain when his software/wetware was rewritten.

Um, does that make sense?

Someone might be able to dig up the scans of Extremis where Maya explains how the virus is going to adjust Tony's physiology - that might clear it up, a bit.
Edited 2008-09-20 01:45 (UTC)

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[identity profile] jynx.livejournal.com 2008-09-20 02:09 am (UTC)(link)
According to.... uhm, hold on lemme grab it :D Shit, now I can't remember where I tossed it.

Anyway, rough outline of Tony and his parents background:

- Howard REALLY wanted a kid. He and Maria tried, they got Tony, well after Howard had Stark In. established.
- Howard wasn't very happy when Tony showed more of an inclination to books than sports. Maria and Jarvis pampered him and encouraged him to learn. Howard got mad and sent him off to boarding school (New England is all I remember) when he was 7
- Maria begged for Tony to come on a family vacation when he was 13. Howard relented. Tony flirted/got involved with the daughter of Howard's business rival. Pissed Howard off, Tony sent off to Europe.
- Tony is at MIT from 15 to 19.
- Parents die when 21.
- Tony gets access to his Trust Fund at 18 and turns into an adrenaline junkie. Possibly when the alcoholism started

Other fun fact - Howard? Very angry drunk. Alcoholism does run in the family.

[identity profile] pandanoai.livejournal.com 2008-09-20 02:10 am (UTC)(link)
Just to quickly add to the Tony's Parents Question:

Tony's father didn't like the fact that his son was so bookish and quiet (and not sporty and outgoing) so he sent him off to boarding school at the age of 7-- which is where he met Tiberius Stone. (and yes there was that one-- possibly more-- time when Tony was 5 and Howard had him down a glass of whiskey.) Sometimes Howard borders on being an abusive alcoholic-- but mostly he's abusive in a psychological/emotional way. (it's probably why Tony runs off to be alone every time something is bothering him-- he's not supposed to be seen as weak in front of others-- and it's probably also why Tony became an alcoholic/had a very difficult time asking for help even after he realized he was an alcoholic). Howard always seemed to see Tony as a disappointment and Tony was always trying to live up to his expectations. Howard was strict and cunning and had "questionable morality" in business transactions, and he didn't mind screwing his competition over.

Maria was kind. She was also in love with a very overbearing person and despite anything she felt personally, Howard always won. But she did love him and Tony, seemingly unconditionally. Tony felt that anything good and positive he felt within and about himself was due to her. He names countless things after her, case in point the Maria Stark Foundation which is a non-profit charity organization designed to stay separate from Stark Industries in case his own company goes bankrupt (as it has a tendency to do :P).

If you want any more info about Tony's dad let me know.

[identity profile] pandanoai.livejournal.com 2008-09-21 01:01 am (UTC)(link)
Like joysweeper said, Howard Stark in other continuities (i.e. Marvel Adventures and Ultimate Marvel) is still alive and is either making sure Tony isn't a bastard, or is in jail, respectively. I mainly read 616 Marvel so all I know is that Tony and Howard never shared the company. Howard died and then Tony took it over when he turned 21. Sometimes Tony comes into contact with other businessmen who his father had dealings with. They usually tell him how much of an asshole Howard was and Tony usually responds with: "Yeah I know... ::shrugs:: Sorry?"

So anyway, it might be canon in MA or Ultimate Marvel, or even in that animated movie they did, but not really in 616.

Hope that helps :D

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[identity profile] elspethdixon.livejournal.com 2008-09-21 10:01 pm (UTC)(link)
Out of curiosity, did Howard use Tony to belittle SI's board? I've read that in some fics and I was wondering if that was a canon or fanon detail.

Fanon detail. It just seemed like the kind of thing he'd do ("Look, my six year old is smarter than you people! Not that I actually am proud of him or anything, and I'll definately never, ever tell him I love him.")

[identity profile] jynx.livejournal.com 2008-09-20 02:38 am (UTC)(link)
IRON MANUAL! It's Iron Manual. Annnnnd now I can't find it. Goddammit. :\

[identity profile] jynx.livejournal.com 2008-09-20 02:43 am (UTC)(link)
....I lie. I do that a lot. The reason I couldn't find it was its a 1996 publication. It's Iron Man the Legend. I have it in .cbr file if you'd like me to upload it?

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[identity profile] grey-bard.livejournal.com 2008-09-20 02:48 am (UTC)(link)
Let's put it this way - if his *cells* malfunction, Extremis will repair it. However, there's no reason why the Extremis itself might not one day malfunction causing much the same effects as cancer. Only, you know. A thousand times faster.

However, the whole "Extremis repairs ALL" thing does lead one to wonder - will Tony continue to age? After all, if it keeps repairing him to a baseline...

[identity profile] mechanicaljewel.livejournal.com 2008-09-20 02:58 am (UTC)(link)
I suspect, since one's DNA "programs" you to age, that the baseline itself will age, but that it will be an extremely slowed down aging process (compared to real life, at least). Basically, I'd expect to see Tony get lines on his face, but have none of the health problems.

Not that anyone really ages in comics anyway.

[identity profile] jynx.livejournal.com 2008-09-20 03:04 am (UTC)(link)
There's rumors the Skrull virus knocked the Extremis offline, like permanently. Faction said that Extremis isn't going to be featured. Which makes me a little iffy. I LIKE Tony being just a guy in a tin suit, but I also think its ridiculously awesome that he can talk to computers *points to her icon for the reason*

[identity profile] mechanicaljewel.livejournal.com 2008-09-20 03:10 am (UTC)(link)
Fraction >:( I wouldn't mind Extremis's healing factor to be knocked out, but his ability to talk to machines is just awesome. Besides, isn't the whole thing with the micro-circuitry underarmor also part of Extremis? Without that the armor isn't as portable, so I don't know what Fraction thinks he's playing at.

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[identity profile] joysweeper.livejournal.com 2008-09-20 08:52 pm (UTC)(link)
People have already discussed 616!Howard Stark, but MA!Howard Stark, like everything else from that universe, isn't evil. He drives his son crazy, and he's a little unhinged himself, but all in all he's okay. I scanned the relevant pages from that issue. (http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/6187499.html) You're probably writing based more on 616, of course.

(Iron Man? Is that German?)

[identity profile] elspethdixon.livejournal.com 2008-09-21 10:09 pm (UTC)(link)
2) I saw one of my fellow newbie's questions about when the Avengers found out about Tony being Iron Man, but when did they find out about his heart problems?

Very early on in canon (actually, before any of them know Tony's Iron Man). Way back in Tales of Suspense (60s canon) Tony is called before congress to reveal the identity of Iron Man (this is the height of the cold war, and the logic is that a weapon that powerful should be operating under the aegis of the American government, not as Tony Stark's pet superhero). Tony has a heart attack on the senate floor just before he can admit that he's Iron Man, and his identity stays secret. After that, his heart issues are public knowledge.

Also, the very first storyline in the Iron Man title itself (in the late 60s) features Tony nearly dying of his ongoing heart issues and getting an experimental heart transplant to remove his need for the breastplate (interesting, this is several years before the first real life heart transplant was performed). The Avengers (in an issue of Avengers that crosses over with the storyline) all visit him in the hospital (and then he's kidnapped out of a hospital bed by Kang, and the Avengers have to become part of a giant game of human chess to save him, because silver age canon is like that).