Tales of Suspense update

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

It occured to me that there are a lot of new members on the list compared to a few months ago, so I thought I'd post an update on the Tales of Suspense site.

For those who don't know, seanchai & I run an automated archive for Steve/Tony fic (my role in the whole thing mostly consists of setting up metadata tags and uploading our own fic -- she's the one who does the code, web design, and all the real work). If you want your fic to be hosted on the site, all you have to do is create an account for youself and upload it.

For everybody who already knows all of this, there are also a couple of new features that have been added over the past few months. First and most importantly, we now have a functional gallery! Due to coding issues (the archive and galllery are two seperate site templates, with a bridge between them), you have to log into the gallery seperately in order to upload art, but your same old unsername and password will apply there, too. We pay for the webspace, so NC-17 art is just as welcome as G-rated icon manips.

We also have metadata tags! [/librarian geekery] That is, we now have "universe," "genre," and "warning" fields on the upload page that you can use to label your fic. You can also click on a tag (when browing the site) in order to see all the fic tagged "movie-verse," or "PWP," or whatever, just like on delicious. Ultimate awesome would be a dialogue box that let you search for specific combinations of tags (like "PWP + kink!") but alas, the software to do that would be way too complicated.


List of tags:

universe:
616 - mainline comics continuity. This includes fic that branches off from comics canon, like Bonding-verse or RR&R, or Moth, because they may break away from or contradict current canon, but they're still using 616 continuity as a starting point.
movie-verse - self-explanatory, right? Fics where Tony has the arc reactor/Jarvis is a computer/etc. etc.
Ultimates - All fic set in Marvel's Ultimate-verse. Technically, there's not enough fic for this verse to really justify its own tag, but considering how drastically different it is from any other 'verse, I thought it was important that the option be there to label it.
other - Includes canonical AUs like 1602 and House of M, as well as fic AUs like metallic_sweet's series and Classic-verse.

genre:
action/drama
angst
crack
drabble
fluff
hurt/comfort
PWP

(You can select multiple genre options -- you can even select all of them if you want, and if you've written a fic that fits all of the above, and I've somehow missed seeing it, OMG, please upload it.)

Both the genre and universe tags are optional -- if you don't want to be bothered, you can ignore them entirely.

warnings:

Some of these are as much advertisements as they are warnings, kinks and squicks being what they are. Again, most of these are optional, with one exception that I'll point out when it comes up.

cancer - I'm perfectly willing to accept that I may be the only person in the world with a "character gets cancer" squick, but just in case I'm not...
character death: other - for fic where any non-Steve-or-Tony character dies. Optional, just like the other tags, especially if you think it would be a spoiler.
character death: OTP - includes both fic wherein Tony, Steve , or both of them die, and all fic set post Captain America #25 that isn't a fixit fic. So basically, this includes any and all current canon fic that's not fixit/AU. This is the one tag that's mandatory, because fic is where some of us go to get away from canon storylines we hate. Okay, not mandatory in the sense that there are actually any consequences or penalties for not using the tag, but mandatory in the sense that using the tag would make those of us who like fic to be our happy place very happy.
graphic violence - Blood & gore, serious brutality, torture... The kind of things that you could only see on television if you were watching HBO.
kink! - Sadly, there's not quite enough kink-fic in the fandom for me to bother specifying what kind of kink, so this is a catch-all descriptor.
mpreg - Do I really need to explain?
non-con - rape, forced consent, and other cases of non-consensual sex.

[ETA: Upon discussion in comments, the "non-con" tag is being/will be replaced by two tags, a "rape" tag and a "dub-con" tag. See hohaiyee's comment below for an explanation of "dub-con."]


Again, all tags are optional except for the "character death: OTP," warning tag (and using the "non-con" tag at least for rape fic would be a nice thing to do for both fans with non-con squicks and fans with non-con kinks).

And since we're not exactly overloaded with tagging options yet, if there's a tag that you'd like to have (your fic doesn't fit properly into any of the genres, you have an ironclad squick that's not on the list, you have a bullet-proof kink that's not on the list, etc.) comment here, and I'll add it to the site.

Also, a question: What do people think of the idea of adding either a meta section where people can upload meta, or a page with links to meta posts (since meta often includes hyperlinks and images, and further discussion in comments) to the site?

Comments

[crimsonquills.livejournal.com]

A question about the non-con tag... I'm not sure that all aliens-made-them-do-it stories are automatically non-con. Rape--especially between OTP characters--is a big squick for me, and yet I'm writing an aliens-made-them-do-it. For me, this type of story falls more into the realm of hypothermia porn (in that the premise is an excuse to get them naked and in close proximity, whereupon they realize that they're both interested) than it does into the realm of rape and forced consent.

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

Good point - the entire genre (both genres, non-con and AMTDI) are very fuzzy areas, with everyone defining how much question there has to be in questionable consent before it's non-con differently - hence my trying to be as inclusive as possible in the description. Hmmm... maybe I'll go back and take AMTDI out - "forced consent" probably ought to suffice.

[crimsonquills.livejournal.com]

It's true, the entire area of non-con and dubious consent are extremely fuzzy. Sometimes it's as much as function of the writer's style as it is of the content!

"forced consent" probably ought to suffice.

That totally works for me. I think it definitely covers the edgier AMTDI without also including the "You want us to have sex? Oh. Okay! *mutually cheerful pouncing*" type. *g*

Thanks! And, uh, looking at all the other comments that suddenly appeared, I hope I didn't open a can of worms there. *sheepish*

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

The fuzziness is one reason why the non-con/rape tag option is optional. I don't want to get into the territory of trying to decide what is and isn't "non-con." (plus, I was already making the "Contains Dead Steve, Avoid! Avoid!" tag, if not mandatory, then at least strongly suggested, and I think one mandatory warning's probably enough).

And, uh, looking at all the other comments that suddenly appeared, I hope I didn't open a can of worms there. *sheepish*

I don't think so - people all seem onboard with the idea of a distinction between rape-through-force and dubious consent scenarios in the tags.

[schmevil.livejournal.com]

Personally, I would prefer separate rape and non-con tags. Some writers will tag "Oh no, oh no, oh yes!" stories and violent rape the same way. ETA: I mean that they present the stories as being essentially the same, and make no distinction in their notes, or whatever.

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

Hmmm... That might be a good idea.

I mean that they present the stories as being essentially the same, and make no distinction in their notes, or whatever.


I'm always kind of afraid, when I run across that, that maybe they don't actually see a distinction.

[martianhouse.livejournal.com]

The thing is, they probably don't. Rape and non-con are kinks, and if you're writing/reading to satisfy that kink, then it's just a matter of intensity, right? And that's fine, as long as the rest of us know what we're getting into. ETA: signed into my fic journal. Whoops!

[hohaiyee.livejournal.com]

dub-con?

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

That's also a good idea. schmevil suggested seperate rape and non-con tags, but dub-con might work even better. It's a larger, greyer umbrella.

futher clarification on dub-con

[hohaiyee.livejournal.com]

Where a party involved did not say yes or no and is Unsure. Probably most early Stane/Stark fics... Or Steve comes back and have his way with Tony before Tony can figure out if Steve is real or not.

Where a party involved is kinda drunk, where they understood who is with them, is enjoying it and would have said yes, but obviously they are in a situation where their thinking isn't clear. Post battle h/c where a party is kinda drugged.

Where the party started out with no, then turns to yes in the middle. The perfect example of this is the Gellert/Albus fic, Suppliance of a Minute (http://asylums.insanejournal.com/merry_smutmas/6582.html). Or, Gone With The Wind, where Scarlett was protesting at first before she was moaning in a good way, and by morning she was all smiles.

[schmevil.livejournal.com]

I made an account a while back, but never got around to uploading anything. (Basically, I suck). Can I upload my Steve/Tonyish fic, as well as the slash? And is friendship fic cool?

I like the idea of hosting meta. There are a lot of great essays and discussion posts out there that will be missed by newbies.

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

Pre-slash and Steve & Tony-centric gen are fine, too (after all, Classic-verse is posted there, and it's largely gen). The only line would I guess be fic that shipped them with someone other than one another (as in, Tony's sleeping with [other character's name goes here], without the addition of a "but he's secretly pining for Steve" qualifier or vice versa).

[schmevil.livejournal.com]

Thanks for clarifying. :)

we lub u!

[hohaiyee.livejournal.com]

Awesome.

Regarding the auto upload thing, what if, post-posting, the author discovers there was a typo and needs to alter it?

Re: we lub u!

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

You can go back and edit the file, under the "manage stories" option on your profile page.

I've done it many times in the process of trying to figure out why some piece of formatting isn't showing up/why the chapter got cut off halfway through/etc. *grins*

[caduceus03.livejournal.com]

Nifty! Tags are very helpful. ^_^ Reading through the comments, I agree that it would be good to separate out dub-con and non-con/rape. As far as additional categories/warnings, it sort of depends on how many stories there are of a type. It might be useful to separate out BDSM from kink (it's a warning that I appreciate, at least) though there might not be enough stories to make that worthwhile. Possibly a humor category as well?

Also, I went to upload stories to the site now that I've been reminded but I am html stupid. How do you use the img tag?

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

[img src="addressforpicgoeshere"] (substituting pointy brackets for square ones).

[caduceus03.livejournal.com]

Thanks! <3

[velithya]

:facepalm: I went and made an author account for myself months ago and then totally didn't upload anything ^^; I'll, uh, get right on that this weekend ^^;

[simmysim.livejournal.com]

hot dog, this is so much easier than bookmarking/memories on LJ! xD

Question: how do you view the bios of contributors?

Also: a big yes on the meta section, I've never seen one of those on a site like this, it sounds very promising.

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

Yay -- looks like a meta section is a go. Now we just have to decide if we want it to be uploadable text-only files, like the fics, or a page of links, so images and discussion-in-comments aren't left out.

I... actually don't know how you view bios. I'm not sure my profile even has any info entered in it, beyond the list of posted fics.

[ymfaery]

Meta section: both, for backup in case LJ acts like a dick has a fit gets a C&D from Marvel for some strange reason and TOSses fandom wholesale?

[simmysim.livejournal.com]

*facepalm* you had that in the post how did i miss that.

My vote would be for both as well, the uploading format for essays (such as the ship manifesto you guys wrote up) and images could be included in links. And then links to the actual ones that lead to discussions and are heavy in images.

[ymfaery]

Question: a fic that was written with a mix of two or more of the different universes would contain all of the relevant tags?

And would the Ultimate Avengers direct-to-dvd cartoons count as Ultimates, or other?

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

Question: a fic that was written with a mix of two or more of the different universes would contain all of the relevant tags?

And would the Ultimate Avengers direct-to-dvd cartoons count as Ultimates, or other?

That's... actually a very good question, and one I hadn't thought of. I guess with blended universe fics, you can either select all relevant tags, or, if it's mostly one 'verse with only a few details from the others, pick the tag you think fits best (or pick "other," or just leave that universe field blank). Or maybe we should have a tag for "blended universe."

As for the cartoon, I'm not sure. The cartoon is really a different continuity than Ultimates, and much closer to 616 in terms of characterization and some of the backstory details (for example, it replaces the Ultimates-canon brain tumor with Tony's regular-canon heart problem and does away with the "his intelligence is actually a mutant power" backstory in favor of the 616 canon "just a normal human in a suit"). I think I'd go for "other."