cap_ironman | The Last Rites of Janet Pym and the dumping on Stark, again

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The Last Rites of Janet Pym and the dumping on Stark, again

For those who came late: Pym is back, since his Skrull! Pym form is dead, and Carol (I'm assuming this is Carol because Mockingbird wouldn't know a Scooby what was going on either) fills Pym in on all the madness, and Tony gets dumped on. Again. All you Thor/Pym slashers, quiet in the back, plz. Click on smaller pictures for legibility goodness.

I am NOT posting pictures from IM 8, because art is FUG it is fug. But Tony is getting there.

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Dear Bendis: Continuing to sacrifice other characters' personalities for the sake of making Tony even more hated and woobie IS BAD WRITING. Hank completely losing his shit over Jan's death? Maybe breaking down into tears and agonized screaming in the middle of the eulogy? Totally could see it. He's never been the most emotionally stable, and for all their problems, he loved her. Hank going all RAGE on someone else in the middle of Jan's funeral? NO, dammit.

God, I'm tired of this.

Carol (I think it's Carol, I only stole and reimaged the stuff onto my free account) gave hank two-three years of low down and drama in the space of probably a thirty minute ride. Hank is back, only to find that the love of his life (I think so) is gone, and depending on who tells it, Stark still comes off badly.

I can see both sides of the narrative in this one.

But yeah, the Tony hate is tired. Stewth.

Yeah, it's Carol, because they mentioned her in earlier pages, but I'm still not feeling the point behind the rage. Breakdown, sure, rage, no. Added up with everything else written so far, it's just another link in the "let's line up all the Marvel characters to have their turn at a groin kick" and it feels stupidly forced.

THIS.

While I could see someone snapping like this, the cumulative effect is less 'Oh, look at how much Hank is suffering' and more
Writer's Cheap Shot hits Tony Stark for 10,000. (crit) (9,999 overkill)
Writer has slain Tony Stark!

Like, on one side, it's all, "FFS, they are dumping on Stark again?! " on the other side, I'm like, "Hank's been away for the best part of two years, and he's getting a truckload of information in a short amount of time, and he's going to lash out. " Especially since Carol seems to be sympathetic towards Tony's position, and she'd just spell things out with no agenda, compared to say... Thor, or any one who opposed the SHRA. Emotions are running high, and Pym's gonna lash out. In addition, isn't Pym supposedly on meds? I'd take this behaviour from him, more than say, Hank, you know?

But yeah, I see your point, and am on your side. Really.

And I totally see yours, and I think it all comes down to crappy writing and whatever fapfest the writer is having.

And Thor showing up? Was where I really had to step back and say 'fuck it. This isn't even about Hank anymore, this is the writer applying a souped-up nutshot to Tony. I'm done.' (okay, not Thor showing up, but the manner in which he did.) It really pisses me off that this could have been so poignant and beautiful if people would just stop using Tony as the universal whipping boy. Also if they stopped using that crap color palatte. Eurgh.

I always mix up Hawkeye (the name) with Hank.

And Thor showing up? Was where I really had to step back and say 'fuck it. This isn't even about Hank anymore, this is the writer applying a souped-up nutshot to Tony. I'm done.'

LOL. Considering the fact that Thor wanted to administer Stark an ass whooping and was only told to hold strain by Rogers, I'm half relieved that he took off without further incident. But yeah, that moment came off a little pissy- nay, a LOT pissy.

It's amazing that Tony has been like, the centre of four arcs in over two years. I really think they need to give Stark some room to heal though. Go Tony, form a new company (although potential stake holders might be thin on the ground). Just... go, become a rainmaker, get the money and run.

Really... I'd almost prefer that Thor threw down the gauntlet instead of doing his little passive-aggressive dance. A 'you, me, outside after this is over' would have been much less pissy than 'we'll go mourn in PEACE now (because Stark is here and is dishonoring Jan's memory).' It's like a catfight that got blown to epic proportions.

Tony totally does need to catch a break, get his life together, and get back up on his horse. Soon. We can only hope.

and Tony came out of that fight limping. There would be no honour in a God literally frying Tony to pieces, and alas, he promised Steve. Remember in Thor #11 when he was like, "Steven, if thou wishest, I shall hunt the one who had thou slain, and slew him on thy behalf." and Steve was all, "No, my friend. I'm cold, it's dark, and I wish no more war."

So Thor will honour the world of his shield brother, but will be giving Tony side eye and what for for a long time.

This will run and run and run.

Oh, I'm aware of that. I just meant that it seemed incredibly catty the current way it was written and even Thor going all alpha male would have been infinitely better than acting like a passive-aggressive teen. It really doesn't suit him.

This writer is seriously punting a lot of my favorites way, way out of character.

He's probably also pretty angry about being held captive for years and no one realizing it wasn't him.

But then, the Avengers have battled the Skrulls before, they know how they roll. It happens, you know? Tony has been under mind control twice and no one actually knew.

Yeah, I'm in two minds about this, 'cause I like the way it conveys Hank's total overwhelmed-ness, and I can totally see him swinging between hysteria and near-catatonia. I just can't work out how he gets to "You killed Janet!" I mean, it's Carol in the car giving him the info on the last three years, and she was pro-Reg with Tony, so if anyone's going to give a fairly even-handed summary of events, it's got to be her, right?

And I just keep wondering if I'm missing something when people try to blame Tony for OMG!everything! Because it's not like Tony is the only major pro-Reg player. It's not like Tony is the only major pro-Reg player who wasn't a skrull. And it's not like Tony isn't human - even the best strategists can't make accurate plans of action when they're missing important information (like, y'know, there are skrulls around?!). I swear, at some point, one of the characters will blame Tony for the way it rained yesterday when the weathermen said it would be sunny - and characters and fans alike, everyone (except for this comm *g*) will agree!

...I think Tony's situation at the moment reminds me of when the Scoobies chucked Buffy out of her own house after some of the Potentials died in battle. Because apparently when you put your life on the line in battle after battle, if anyone gets killed it's *got* to be the result of incompetent leadership, not simply a sad fact of warfare. It's a reaction that annoys me in fiction and real life - a sort of feeling of betrayed entitlement. And I suppose the superhero community as a whole is still feeling mentally bruised by having to choose sides and fight each other... but it still feels so out of character for people who have for years/decades accepted that one day they might not come back from a fight, to be blaming the secret invasion casualties on Tony alone.

Yeah, I'm in two minds about this, 'cause I like the way it conveys Hank's total overwhelmed-ness, and I can totally see him swinging between hysteria and near-catatonia. I just can't work out how he gets to "You killed Janet!" I mean, it's Carol in the car giving him the info on the last three years, and she was pro-Reg with Tony, so if anyone's going to give a fairly even-handed summary of events, it's got to be her, right?

True. Despite Carol's frustrations with Stark at him playing God (she did say something about the world would crucify him eventually in The Ultron Initiative), yeah, she'd be pretty even handed, but one could say that Stark was the one that pushed the SHRA into action, and literally flicked the first domino re: the events of the past two years.

It's just unfortunate that Tony Stark has been the face of all the events for the past two years - he was behind SHRA, the Cap thing wasn't his fault, but happened on his watch, Word War Hulk, etc. It's just unfortunate that he's been the face, so yeah, it's easy to pile blame on him. Even in the face of a sympathetic party (Carol), Tony still comes off as the man behind it all. So... yeah.

Because apparently when you put your life on the line in battle after battle, if anyone gets killed it's *got* to be the result of incompetent leadership, not simply a sad fact of warfare.

Yeah, this. Stark's problem is (was) that he had a hand (indirectly or no) in Captain America's death, and in societies eyes, they aren't thinking about people dying as a result of a Super hero war, they're thinking about the guy who supposedly pulled the trigger.

it still feels so out of character for people who have for years/decades accepted that one day they might not come back from a fight, to be blaming the secret invasion casualties on Tony alone.

Yes and no. Tony Stark doesn't really get that much love in Marvel U, even before Civil War. When Wanda does her mind control, people think that he's gone on the drink, and only Steve believes him. When Tony went rouge in the 90s, people were prepared to believe the worst in him before finding out why. Granted some of his actions in CW and beyond have been dodgy, but Tony has never been afraid to get his hands dirty in a way that might sit wrong with some heroes.

Oy.

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The Last Rites of Janet Pym and the dumping on Stark, again

no subject

I guess I can understand Pym's rage in the middle of the funeral

Re: I guess I can understand Pym's rage in the middle of the funeral

Re: I guess I can understand Pym's rage in the middle of the funeral

Like I said, I can understand both sides

Re: Like I said, I can understand both sides

D'oh! Clint, I meant Clint (instead of Hank)

Re: D'oh! Clint, I meant Clint (instead of Hank)

I dunno, IM and Thor have rumbled before

Re: I dunno, IM and Thor have rumbled before

Re: I guess I can understand Pym's rage in the middle of the funeral

True, but he should have called out everyone too

Re: I guess I can understand Pym's rage in the middle of the funeral

Motto!