IIM #20-Stark Dissasembled

[sassafras-root.livejournal.com]

Hello! I mostly lurk because I'm a little shy, but I've been really enjoying this comm a lot. Besides the great fic/art, there's really smart discussions here. I was wondering what everyone's reactions to the latest Iron Man comic that came out today. This comm seems pretty Tony-friendly and can discuss his flaws without the kneejerk "he's a douche and should die" reactions.

Without going into any spoilers, I was really, really disappointed. I was looking forward to this arc after reading Fraction's interviews (I was mixed on World's Most Wanted) and I thought it would be good for the character but this first issue left me kind of cold. Plus, the thing with Pepper just seemed off to me.

What were your opinions, if you got the issue? Does anyone have some hopes for what this arc will do for Tony's character? What do you hope the Tony/Steve reunion scene will be like (I'm afraid to get my hopes up for that, too)?

Comments

Re: YMMV, but...

[jazzypom.livejournal.com]

I guess why it doesn't work in this arc is that it just feels out of place for this arc. I mean, I know there's a way he'd change from how he usually is to the way he was in the message, Fraction just didn't really...develop it much.

And Fraction had twelve issues, plus this issue. I know that comics are decompression city nowadays, but apart from the eight panels on scans_daily not much happens in the comic.

Yes, like I told someone in scans_daily, my beef is not with Tony's message from beyond as say, in between arcs there's always been a time when the writers have allowed Tony to breathe and genuflect. Fraction hasn't allowed Tony to do some introspection since The Five Nightmares of Tony Stark arc. It's all old pop culture references and wit, which is... okay when one is on the run and using gallows humour to keep his head up. But erm... in the shadows when thoughts come forward, Tony must think? My beef is that we don't really get Tony's thought processes at all.

I mean, I like Fraction, and have liked his work, so I'm coming from the place of having nothing but good vibes towards Fraction, but when I read the comic, I was like, 'Son, I am disappoint' which is bad. :(

I think why I'm so disappointed is that I have a feeling that when Steve and Thor come back, everyone's going to just want to see them beat the crap out of Tony and call him a douche all the time and that's it.

Quite. To be fair, Cap and Thor do have a right to beat Tony up and call him a douche. But for Thor, he and Tony have ran into each other before, and Tony escaped relatively unharmed. Then, in addition to that, Steve was all, "No Thor, no more blood should be spilt in my name." So yeah, feelings.

But here's the thing, yes, Thor and Cap should be resentful, yes their feelings towards Tony are valid. No, it shouldn't be easy in terms of Tony and his other avengers to get on up and up again, because Tony did dick moves. My only hitch is that people demand that Tony apologise, even though Tony didn't think he did anything wrong.

If they are going to write him as bullish as that, I don't see why they should have him apologising. If you're going to apologise, at least be honest, and heartfelt. Good friendship demands it.

Re: YMMV, but...

[cosmicbiscuit.livejournal.com]

The reason readers aren't accepting this is that Tony did do wrong in Civil War. A lot of it. Clone Thor and the death of Bill Foster was just fuckup number one. He made (yes, made) Norman Osborn kill a diplomat and provoke a war with Atlantis, imprisoned people without trial for a law that hadn't even gone into effect yet, indefinitely, and more. And all the ways he's tried to justify it so far have been extremely hollow, because Marvel expects us to accept their editorial mandate that he was in the right for all of it, when he wasn't. Saying that readers should just accept the bullheadedness without complaint, when he doesn't have the right to be bullheaded because he fucked up and big time, is just asking for resentment, and that's what they're getting. That's why they want the beatdowns, because the writers are again trying to guilt them into liking a character who was dropkicked off the slippery slope, rather than actually trying to redeem the character.

Re: YMMV, but...

[jazzypom.livejournal.com]

The reason readers aren't accepting this is that Tony did do wrong in Civil War. A lot of it. Clone Thor and the death of Bill Foster was just fuckup number one. He made (yes, made) Norman Osborn kill a diplomat and provoke a war with Atlantis, imprisoned people without trial for a law that hadn't even gone into effect yet, indefinitely, and more. And all the ways he's tried to justify it so far have been extremely hollow, because Marvel expects us to accept their editorial mandate that he was in the right for all of it, when he wasn't.

Which is why Tony handing himself over to judgement is supposedly a big deal. When they sit down and weigh all this ... do they bring him back? It could have been effective...oh well, another missed opp.

Re: YMMV, but...

[cosmicbiscuit.livejournal.com]

I say bullshit, because I'm with the people who think he damn well knows they won't just let him die.

Also, again, compare this to what happened with Duane Freeman's brother after Duane was killed by Kang's bomb. Tony was responsible for a lot less then, and yet he still manned up and basically said "I was wrong to assume that all the Triunes were corrupt. They weren't like their leader, they were just good people being used, and I'm sorry I was an antagonistic jerk about it for so long that we never got to clear things up before Duane died. I wasn't fair to him."

That is Tony Stark. That's a person who admits he isn't infallible, who changes course when he sees something that throws a curveball at his plans and ideas, who apologizes when he's been a jackass, who doesn't go around acting like "Oh, well, things fucked up, but I was right all along, you just didn't do things the way you should have," the way he is in that video. If being so bullheaded that you can't see the forest for the trees or admit that maybe aren't as omniscient as you'd like to think you are is supposed to be a "good" direction for Tony, then maybe it's time I stop reading the character altogether, because I can't get behind that.