Just a little discussion

[silver-autumn.livejournal.com]

I recently started reading this really thought-provoking Graphic Novel called Irredeemable by Mark Waid and it set the plot bunnies loose in my mind. It's dark and a bit distrubing but ..pretty good.

Anyway I was thinking of writing some tony/cap inspired by this comic. So my question for discussion is this: What would it take to make Steve Rogers go bad?
Is he capable of going bad? We saw him be a bit of a rogue in Civil War but could he ever be considered a villian? What would have to happen in order for Captain America to go (for lack of a better term) to the dark side?

I've only been playing in this fandom for about three years now so I'm still pretty new. I'd love to hear your thoughts!

Mods- I hope this post is alright. Let me know if it's outta line.

Comments

[geekychan.livejournal.com]

Off-topic (kind of) but Irredeemable is awesome. I picked it up during Free Comic Book Day and was just hooked.

[silver-autumn.livejournal.com]

I can't wait for the third volume to come out!

[strzyga.livejournal.com]

i've actually been playing with a story idea in which tony and steve are both evil, lmao. my thoughts on steve are that he'd be something along the lines of ultimates/1610 red skull-- trained in secret by the military, genius child prodigy, excels at everything, including his secret insanity and plot to destroy his, ah, 'keepers,' if you will, and eventually breaks free. whether he was going to go AWOL during WWII and the american government would know was something i hadn't decided yet, but /shrug

as for, like, current day steve going evil, i've got nothing outside of brainwashing/possession, ahaha.


also, irredeemable is fantastic ♥♥♥

[cosmicbiscuit.livejournal.com]

Well, if you read Exiles, apparently it takes getting bitten by an evil vampire.

[valtyr]

I want to read a story where Doom is bitten by a good vampire and becomes a hero.

[silver-autumn.livejournal.com]

I like this idea...as long as he doesn't sparkle I think we'll be ok.

[feikoi.livejournal.com]

Dude, if he sparkles, /it will be amazing/. Bring on the crack.

(Plus, if he keeps the armor on, will you see it anyway? Oh god, what if the armor /augments/ it?)

[cosmicbiscuit.livejournal.com]

It'd be like a tin christmas tree!

[booster-blue.livejournal.com]

Well, if you work it like Irredeemable then you could have Cap being raised by the military; or even do the whole Bucky route of the too young wet-works type. Deny him any kind/caring influences in his life to balance out the military life, he'd be a ticking time bomb.

[silver-autumn.livejournal.com]

hmmmm ... it could work. I guess while I was reading Irredeemable the artwork kept reminding me of Steve. I just don't know if its possible to pull off an evi!Steve and still have him be in character...

[cat-13145.livejournal.com]

Wouldn't always work though as you have X23 with virtually this type of background, but I'd say she's a hero.

Have to say, I'm with the others it would either take brainwashing or overfantism (seriously do read what you have tamed, it is an awesome fic, even if evil Steve is scary) it is also the only way I can see evil steve happening, still believing he's doing the right thing, but actually being off on a VERY dark path.

[cat-13145.livejournal.com]

Oh I will say, if they had used Steve for the registration storyline (the Illumine ect), that I could also see as Evil Steve, but only because it would be in everyone best intersts.

Steve and Tony united, I think we'd have had what if Civil War part 2 (Lovely story)

[booster-blue.livejournal.com]

Sure, X-23 turned out all right, but then who many others could claim the same. In most cases like that Laura's the oddity. So it could go either way Plus, she had her mother to sort of give here that bit of humanity (albeit in a roundabout way that plagues the Wolverine clan like a bad funk).

But yea, I was sorta leaning towards the idea of good intentions and the road to hell sort of thing - as is the military's usual way to get people to do some pretty nasty things. If Steve's only moral compass is what his commanders give him, then it'd be easy for the wrong sort of guy(s) to take that and warp his patriotism(*cough*for God and Country*cough*).

[tsukinofaerii.livejournal.com]

Evil Steve, I think, tends to be a Crazy Steve. He has to break very, very thoroughly in order to be evil, IMO, and it tends to be the "I am doing what is right" sort of evil, where he honestly thinks that killing off however many people is for the best. I touched on that sort of thing in What You Have Tamed (http://community.livejournal.com/tsukinoniwa/37517.html) with AU!Steve, but I'm kind of glad that I didn't spend much time on him. He creeps me out. D: But long story short, Evil Steve in there is very dictatorial. There's a lot of back story that Tony just didn't have the mental capacity to notice (and so it didn't make it into the text), but Steve is pretty much out to "fix" the world, and feels that if most of it dies in the process, so be it. (Warning for those clicking the link: VERY NON-CON, torture, mind games... Just say Ow.)

[/ramble]

[silver-autumn.livejournal.com]

Brilliant! I kinda like Crazy!Steve- only because he's so interesting and messed up. And like everyone was saying on here- Steve would go nuts but think he was doing the right thing. I think he was honestly trying to help Tony...in a sick way that tried to eliminate his own feelings of guilt.

This was wonderfully dark. Poor Normal!Steve having to clean up Evil!Steve's mess. There was just so much about this that I adored! I read through the comments- you mentioned returning to write more on this..did you ever?

Thanks for the comment and the rec!

[tsukinofaerii.livejournal.com]

Thanks! Steve is so mild and rock-steady usually, he's very hard to break. Of course, that just means that when he does, it's thoroughly. People like Tony break in little ways all the time, but Steve just sort of cracks down the center. (cuddles him) I would really like to see more people do an Evil Steve. It does not seem to come up very often, but he has a lot of potential as an Evil sort.

Nope, I never got around to it. I had a NaNoWriMo immediately after, and then the holidays, and two big bangs... Somehow, it got shuffled around.

♥ You're welcome.

[valtyr]

GOOD LORD is this a Canon Evil Cap and a posse of evil Revengers? I do believe it is!

[tsukinofaerii.livejournal.com]

:O Is that a Cthulu 'verse? (makes grabby hands at it) That must be so much fun to play with, in an, "OMG MY EYES ARE BLEEDING AND YET I KEEP DOING THIS" sort of way.

Why are there pentagrams over everything? (stabby stabby growly-face) Pop culture pseudo-Satanism has much to answer for.