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cap_ironman2010-12-20 08:16 pm
fictivore.livejournal.com) wrote in cap_ironman2010-12-20 08:16 pm
Entry tags:
Auto Lobotomy Suicide - Canon Cobbling Ramble and Fraction's Possible Claim to Fridge Brilliance
Well folks... Now it’s official. Tony Stark has completely consumed my brain. My comp is supposed to go for a check this weekend and I was backing up my data, when my brain was literally struck by an epiphany a la Tony Stark and his Brain-delete. Forgive, if this is all stuff you’ve already considered and/or if this actually is the current interpretation. (Then this will just me being as slow as a tube-light on the fritz <.<)
Right. So, onwards to my brain’s attempts to justify Fraction and integrate his characterization of Tony to previous canon.
One of the things confusing me a bit was, what was Tony’s aim? If he just wanted to destroy the database, well, why NOT jump into a volcano? Ditto, if he just wanted to kill himself. But that little, ‘It’s not that bad yet’ to Dimitri and the ‘I win’, to Osborn... Could it be? Could it be that he was actually using the whole thing to set up Norman Osborn for a fall?! I mean, the start of the end of Norman’s credibility basically started with the clusterfuck that was a) his inability to get StarkTech working, b) his inability to capture Tony Stark and c) his on-international-TV loss of control while beating up Tony Stark... The reason it wasn’t ‘that bad yet’- the point at which it would be *that bad* would be if the only thing he could do to hurt Osborn would be to destroy the database. Right then, he could (and did) also destroy his reputation.
So, his aim, in order of priority seems to actually have been a) destroy SHRA DB, b) destroy Osborn as much as possible and c) kill self!
\o/ Go Tony! :D/D: ?
Second bit of ‘inconsistent behaviour’. The video message he left for Pepper, Captain America and Thor. I couldn’t believe he’d actually try to... well, it *seemed* he was emotionally manipulating them big-time... How could he believe that these people, actual heroes, would just let him die? And the whole setup with ‘I’ll come back without any memories’ seemed a bit too pat, really... I mean, Tony ‘I plan for every contingency’ Stark? We’re supposed to believe that Tony ‘I think my new computer body is the coolest thing ever’ Stark, would just forget to make regular back-ups of his cool new brain? Specially with all the brain-washing he’s already experienced?
But think of it this way (and this was the original epiphany). When you make a back-up of your comp, do you make a new disk/drive every time? Or do you just overwrite the previous back-up with a new one?! Considering the dangerous secrets in his brain, Tony would definitely not have multiple copies of his brain running around! Of course, he would have had a recent brain back-up! But that back-up would *obviously* also contain the SHRA, SHIELD databases- the very information he was trying to delete. So this back-up would in fact have been among the copies he ‘destroyed’ prior to brain-delete! Looking at it in this light, it seems remarkably fortunate (and indeed, over prepared) to have a back-up from some time ago, sitting around as well!
Seriously, how many of us (who actually back up their comps) still have copies of even 2 back-ups ago saved? Let alone (if it was a nightly job) about a 100 back-ups ago?
Coming back to the matter of his deciding to leave his life or death in the hands of those specific people. Why would he do that, if he indeed, really wanted to die? (And here comes the shippyness! :DD) Because Steve was dead, of course!
Well, duh... Of course- Steve was dead so Tony wanted to die, we all know that, moving along now. But that’s not the only effect Steve not being alive had on this situation. Let’s look at the people involved-
Thor- Well, so when Thor comes back, he has in fact given indication of wanting to see Tony dead. The whole ‘this is your fault’, ‘I abhor you’ thing just after Secret Invasion; the silent implication of Jan’s (and Steve’s) death being Tony’s fault; the as good as said sentiment of Tony no longer ‘deserving’ to be one of the original Avengers... Well, why should Tony believe that Thor would want him alive? In fact, from his point of view, by offering Thor the chance to ‘pull the plug’ as it were, was probably a way of trying to make up for his mistakes, by giving Thor the opportunity to pass judgement and punishment.
Captain America- Now, the Captain America, Tony has given the choice to, is not Steve Rogers. Because at the time of this decision Steve Rogers is dead. This Cap is Bucky Barnes, a ruthless assassin who has stated to his face that he hates him, that he’ll kill him if he so much as steps out of line, that *he* is responsible for the death of his only family, Steve Rogers. Why is this guy supposed to choose to bring him back again? Indeed, why would he even come to see Tony upon Hill’s invitation? He hates Maria Hill!
Pepper- This one... It goes a long way in proving my point but at the same time completely pisses me off. You’d think that Pepper Potts would be the one person who’d prove Tony expectations wrong and actually be completely unhesitant in choosing to bring Tony back. But, in a highly unpleasant turn of events, she just shows us the validity of how Tony thought. He’d ‘killed’ Happy, shut off his life support and almost gotten Pepper killed. Would be a sort of poetic justice if Pepper got to be one of the people who made that decision for him, right? After all. why should he get to come back if Happy didn’t?
And *sigh* Pepper did prove him right. But why was he wrong in his prediction of Thor and Bucky? One word. Steve.
Both of their major grievance with Tony was Steve’s death. Well once that was no longer a concern, Bucky’s anger was almost non-existent (he was the first one to say, ‘we have bring him back’). Thor, who was also upset about the clone, hesitated a bit more, but again the most intolerable crime had no longer been committed.
And they bring him back. :|
SO! What do you think? Crazy ramblings of a sleep deprived mind? Or does this make any sense? y/n?
*Is an absolute whore for discussion*
Right. So, onwards to my brain’s attempts to justify Fraction and integrate his characterization of Tony to previous canon.
One of the things confusing me a bit was, what was Tony’s aim? If he just wanted to destroy the database, well, why NOT jump into a volcano? Ditto, if he just wanted to kill himself. But that little, ‘It’s not that bad yet’ to Dimitri and the ‘I win’, to Osborn... Could it be? Could it be that he was actually using the whole thing to set up Norman Osborn for a fall?! I mean, the start of the end of Norman’s credibility basically started with the clusterfuck that was a) his inability to get StarkTech working, b) his inability to capture Tony Stark and c) his on-international-TV loss of control while beating up Tony Stark... The reason it wasn’t ‘that bad yet’- the point at which it would be *that bad* would be if the only thing he could do to hurt Osborn would be to destroy the database. Right then, he could (and did) also destroy his reputation.
So, his aim, in order of priority seems to actually have been a) destroy SHRA DB, b) destroy Osborn as much as possible and c) kill self!
\o/ Go Tony! :D/D: ?
Second bit of ‘inconsistent behaviour’. The video message he left for Pepper, Captain America and Thor. I couldn’t believe he’d actually try to... well, it *seemed* he was emotionally manipulating them big-time... How could he believe that these people, actual heroes, would just let him die? And the whole setup with ‘I’ll come back without any memories’ seemed a bit too pat, really... I mean, Tony ‘I plan for every contingency’ Stark? We’re supposed to believe that Tony ‘I think my new computer body is the coolest thing ever’ Stark, would just forget to make regular back-ups of his cool new brain? Specially with all the brain-washing he’s already experienced?
But think of it this way (and this was the original epiphany). When you make a back-up of your comp, do you make a new disk/drive every time? Or do you just overwrite the previous back-up with a new one?! Considering the dangerous secrets in his brain, Tony would definitely not have multiple copies of his brain running around! Of course, he would have had a recent brain back-up! But that back-up would *obviously* also contain the SHRA, SHIELD databases- the very information he was trying to delete. So this back-up would in fact have been among the copies he ‘destroyed’ prior to brain-delete! Looking at it in this light, it seems remarkably fortunate (and indeed, over prepared) to have a back-up from some time ago, sitting around as well!
Seriously, how many of us (who actually back up their comps) still have copies of even 2 back-ups ago saved? Let alone (if it was a nightly job) about a 100 back-ups ago?
Coming back to the matter of his deciding to leave his life or death in the hands of those specific people. Why would he do that, if he indeed, really wanted to die? (And here comes the shippyness! :DD) Because Steve was dead, of course!
Well, duh... Of course- Steve was dead so Tony wanted to die, we all know that, moving along now. But that’s not the only effect Steve not being alive had on this situation. Let’s look at the people involved-
Thor- Well, so when Thor comes back, he has in fact given indication of wanting to see Tony dead. The whole ‘this is your fault’, ‘I abhor you’ thing just after Secret Invasion; the silent implication of Jan’s (and Steve’s) death being Tony’s fault; the as good as said sentiment of Tony no longer ‘deserving’ to be one of the original Avengers... Well, why should Tony believe that Thor would want him alive? In fact, from his point of view, by offering Thor the chance to ‘pull the plug’ as it were, was probably a way of trying to make up for his mistakes, by giving Thor the opportunity to pass judgement and punishment.
Captain America- Now, the Captain America, Tony has given the choice to, is not Steve Rogers. Because at the time of this decision Steve Rogers is dead. This Cap is Bucky Barnes, a ruthless assassin who has stated to his face that he hates him, that he’ll kill him if he so much as steps out of line, that *he* is responsible for the death of his only family, Steve Rogers. Why is this guy supposed to choose to bring him back again? Indeed, why would he even come to see Tony upon Hill’s invitation? He hates Maria Hill!
Pepper- This one... It goes a long way in proving my point but at the same time completely pisses me off. You’d think that Pepper Potts would be the one person who’d prove Tony expectations wrong and actually be completely unhesitant in choosing to bring Tony back. But, in a highly unpleasant turn of events, she just shows us the validity of how Tony thought. He’d ‘killed’ Happy, shut off his life support and almost gotten Pepper killed. Would be a sort of poetic justice if Pepper got to be one of the people who made that decision for him, right? After all. why should he get to come back if Happy didn’t?
And *sigh* Pepper did prove him right. But why was he wrong in his prediction of Thor and Bucky? One word. Steve.
Both of their major grievance with Tony was Steve’s death. Well once that was no longer a concern, Bucky’s anger was almost non-existent (he was the first one to say, ‘we have bring him back’). Thor, who was also upset about the clone, hesitated a bit more, but again the most intolerable crime had no longer been committed.
And they bring him back. :|
SO! What do you think? Crazy ramblings of a sleep deprived mind? Or does this make any sense? y/n?
*Is an absolute whore for discussion*
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As to sleeping with Maria: Why wouldn't he? They were both capable people who decided to have a bit of comfort sex. Even if he wasn't about to die, he was melting his own brain, and that had to be as scary as hell. She was there and willing and one of the few people in the world who still liked him. This is the guy who picked up Jan on the rebound without telling her he was Iron Man.
Bucky totally blamed him loads, so did Thor, but they were still heroes. Both of them are incredibly deadly, both of them could hold a grudge like woah, but both of them are still heroes. Bucky at least was trying to live up to Steve, this involved living up to him, whether he liked it or not. Plus he and Tony had a decent, if not excellent working relationship at this point, so I don't think he hate hate hated him after he got Steve's letter (which Steve had entrusted to Tony, even in the middle of their fight).
In Thor #11, Thor summoned Steve's spirit and asked if he wanted to be avenged. Steve emphatically said that he did not, and that there had been enough killing, and don't you dare. Thor said okay.
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But overall, yeah, we're talking about the guy who once mindwiped everyone on the planet who knew his identity. Tony has a number of virtues, but being open and honest with the people around him isn't one of them.
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That was the Confession, and no one has any idea what he meant.
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One of the things that really bugged me about both Civil War and Brand New Day is that they totally derailed the whole mentor-student thing that Tony and Peter had been developing before. It would've been really fun to see that play out without BIG WORLD_SHATTERING EVENTS!!!! getting in the way.
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The only instance I can remember is the whole cryogenics thing. Yes, it was very very assholish of him to do so then, and it had a huge fallout in terms of Rhodey getting massively pissed off. That's why doing it again would be so uncharacteristic... (But if there have been other such incidents over the years, then it wouldn't be so...)
Okay, agree with you about Maria... Didn't think of it that way... So agreed... And as for Jan, that was a very different thing. IIRC the thing with Jan, was just after Beth had left him to go back to her husband, and just before the serious drinking arc... So yes it was not a very noce thing to do seeing where Jan was at that time emotionally, but people forget to look at where Tony was too.
Yes, but Thor did ask, right? Which implies that if Steve had said yes (which he wouldn't have but if he did) he wouldn't have been averse to having it out with Tony...
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I may be mistaken there. There was the time with the cryogenics, heroes reborn (which wasn't his fault), and a couple of times where he just wandered off without telling anyone where he was going. Oh, and once in Tales of Suspense, when he decided to ditch Tony Stark and just keep up Iron Man. At this point, everyone hated him anyway, so it wasn't much of a loss.
Well, I get that Tony was sad about losing his girlfriend, but Jan's marriage had just disintegrated in an cloud of domestic abuse and madness, ending with her husband trying to kill her and all her friends and landing himself in jail. It Tony (who was a lot older and more experienced) wanted rebound nookie, he could have picked someone less vulnerable. Or at least not hidden his secret identity from Jan.
He did ask. And Steve said no. Which makes it less likely for him to go after Tony, not more. Besides #1 he could have meant Crossbones. Besides #2 that entire comic has been retconned into oblivion.
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