cap_ironman | Hi? Iron Man 500?

Hi? Iron Man 500?

Umm.... So since there isn't really a Tony Stark community out there and I really really need some input on this. Help, guys?

I just read Invincible Iron Man #500 and apparently it's gone into reprint and everyone is really pleased with it. Umm, what did you think of it? Did you think he got Tony was right in what he would or would not do? Do you know anything about Fraction's future plans with Tony and what are your opinions about them?

Because I just read the issue, and... I can't get over it. I don't want to lead witness or whatever in the post so I'll put my opinions in the comments, but please, I really really need to get this off my chest. Thanks.

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Second, he wasn't in a relationship with either Maria Hill or Pepper at the time nor did they ask for one when they slept with him. He didn't promise anything back either.

I think they're annoyed because they thought Tony was going to die? Like, they thought the plan was Tony killing himself, but Tony was aiming to live, but didn't tell them that. So... it's awkward.

I would totally be annoyed if I thought I was giving a dude a last shag before dying and then it turned out I was just another notch on his busy bedpost and I wasn't even the only last shag before dying. I probably wouldn't broach the subject either, because WTF would I say.

Also I think Maria's grudge was in the main about something else, when Tony told her a story of drunken Playboy shenanigans and she was mad.

I hadn't thought of it like that. I interpreted it as they being mad at him because of the sex alone. Atlhough Tony did die, in a way. The Tony they slept with isn't coming back.

Also, Pepper sleeping with a brain damaged (as in, dumbed down and incapable of remembering their whole background and Happy Hogan) Tony is still terrible.

LOL, yes, in a sense, but in another sense he is right there oblivious to it all. :)

It's a while since I've read it, but I thought Tony only revealed he couldn't remember who Happy was after the sex? Like, before that he'd seemed slow, but still essentially Tony; the Happy line came across as "duh duh DUH" he doesn't remember! Am I misremembering?

No that's correct... But even before that, he didn't recognize Pepper at first!!! Leaving aside whether he knew about Happy at that point or not, sleeping with a guy, who you should be one of the most important people to, but who DOESN'T even recognize you at first, is very morally dubious at best. And he clearly stated that he did not remember leaving the suit for Pepper, which again, should have sort of clued her in on, uhh maybe I should slow down?

And even if whatever happened, I can see Maria Hill getting angry and I agree with her, because she doesn't know the circumstances under which Tony and Pepper slept together. So for her, it is, as you say, like Stark basically cheated her. But Pepper? When, *even if*, she didn't realize the full import of the brain-delete at the moment when she was sleeping with him, later on she should be cognizant of that fact and maybe try to explain to Maria and not be angry at Tony? But no, apparently she thinks that Tony wronged her and was a dick, as well!

But no, apparently she thinks that Tony wronged her and was a dick, as well!

Uh... she did have to undergo major surgery to bring Tony back, which he just kind of assumed she'd do. I can see her being annoyed she wasn't let in on the plan, especially if she slept with him on the grounds it would be the last time they ever saw each other.

(Also, sexual consent of brain damaged people is a really, really tricky scenario. They're often still people with desires and agency; and in a situation where Tony isn't going to recover and will die shortly,(as Pepper believed) that's rather less skeevy.)

Umm... the consent thing really gets me because Pepper is supposed to be smart, dammit! And considering that they had gone through what? 10-11 years of friendship and UST, before they kiss in Vol 3 and basically agree that sorry, no spark there... And Tony has gone through many times where it looked like he was about to die, without jumping Pepper's bones. Considering that Tony was really really invested in the Pepper/Happy ship (witness his misguided attempts at match-making, again V3) and that Happy was one of his best friends and that Pepper had basically asked Tony to euthanize said best friend/her husband not even a few months ago... Uhhhh skeeeeeeeeeeevy...

And about the surgery, well yes, it was dickish. But considering that at least I am pretty sure that Tony had really small hopes about actually getting to come back... And leaving that aside, since until just before the execution of the plan, she *wanted* the RT out, I assume that would have taken surgery as well? She basically changed her mind at the last moment when she saw how 'cool' it was...

And I'm pretty sure, that no matter what a loved one does, the correct response to them getting to live where you thought they were going to die, is to be really really happy. No matter what they do.

It doesn't actually seem that stupid to have comfort/goodbye sex with someone who was the road not taken for you. Sure, he wasn't entirely together. It wasn't clear just how out of it he was. Yes, I know Tony ~almost dies~ every damn week, but as far as she knew Tony was trying to kill himself.

And I'm pretty sure, that no matter what a loved one does, the correct response to them getting to live where you thought they were going to die, is to be really really happy. No matter what they do.

Actually it's also pretty normal to be angry, and upset, at the emotional turmoil. She's been under a hell of a lot of strain. I'm not saying her anger is completely justified; I'm saying her anger is understandable and doesn't make her a bad person.

Oh, I'm not saying she's a bad person! I just can't understand where she's coming from right now in canon. It's not like Tony only just suddenly developed the need to keep things from people (which considering the amount of times he's been betrayed, doesn't seem too obnoxious) or decide things for them...

I can't really understand her reasons for getting angry (or even sleeping with Tony, but okay, with the whole dying thing... *shrugs*) But okay, having goodbye sex and then getting angry at it not turning out to be goodbye? I still don't get it, but I can sort of say that well, emotional upheaval so okay.

But continuing to remain angry and then demanding stuff because of it? Sorry, I'm not getting it... Especially since he's supposed to be one of her best friends/family for over a decade now... :/

Eh, I'm guessing the reactor and the suit are kind of symbolic of regaining her old life. Also, remember while it's been ages for us, it's been a much shorter time in-canon.

Hmmm, true... How long do you think *has* it been since the brain-delete in IIM? I'm sure the timelines aren't running the same way across the titles, right?

Oh man, I have no idea. lol, I don't even read the comic now so can't even ballpark, sorry!

My impression is that within IIM, it's really only been about 3 months at most. I could be completely wrong, though. I think they mentioned they only had 6 weeks to design and build the Resilient car before the expo thing.

Ooh, thanks! Though with comic-book rates of recovery, idk... I mean, realistically considering the amount of trauma all super-heroes go through within '1 year' of stories let alone '10 years' in comics, they *should* be shuddering wrecks in psychiatric wards... ¬_¬;

So basically, just like TV.

What got me was not the initial issue of Pepper having sex with Tony - it was what Pepper said in IIM #23 (Stark Disassembled) when she and Maria Hill were talking about it. Pepper said "You should have seen him - so...helpless, and guileless". If not for that bit, it wouldn't have bothered me half as much. But that one sentence just made me shudder.

Ugh, that's a little gross.

I really liked Pepper pretty much throughout the entire thing. She had violently conflicting feelings about everything, and that was completely understandable. But that one sentence...

I also completely understand now why there's so much mixed disappointment and hilarity over this stuff. Some of it is great, some of it has tremendous (unrealized) potential, and some of it makes you wonder how such talentless people got their jobs.

Wow, I'd forgotten that bit... I think I'd managed to selectively blank it from my mind... That was really really creepy. D:

I read IIM from #25 to #33 in one go last Monday. (Damn you fantastic fanfic writers for getting me hooked on another fandom...) I think it's a slightly different perspective when you read a serial story in one sitting, and it's still pretty fresh in my mind.

You are not misremembering, Happy's name came after the sex but Tony had told her about the notes to himself before the sexy times and well, he was almost done with the Brain deletion so Smart Pepper should've known better. Also, she brought her very recently deceased husband and Tony's best friend name into the conversation, while she was laying with him on a sofa covered only with a bedsheet.

He still seemed fairly together, though. Forgetful isn't the same as incapable. I just think it was really complicated and I don't think it's odd Pepper resents him for it, especially as the back-to-life plan she didn't know about involved her having major surgery which left her in a wheelchair for a couple days.

I just think that if Tony had remembered about Happy he wouldn't have agreed to have sex with Pepper.

But, well, I don't really care much anymore. I'm pretty dissapointed by the whole run in general. Many things don't make any sense, people blame Tony for everything and anything and the ones who don't, resent him sometimes even over petty things, and he's suddenly done in the past stuff that othertimes would be OOC for him.

I understand Pepper and the issue in which she wrote Tony a letter that she later crumpled and trashed away was very moving. But then we have her angry when everyone decides to get Tony back because only Tony gets to come back and not Happy (now she remembers Happy) or the others when she was the one who asked him to turn off his machines.

I-- gah-- just, whatever. IIM is just a big big mess.

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