other superhero identities for Steve and Tony

[crimsonquills.livejournal.com]

This is something of a random discussion topic, but I was pondering the idea the other day and I can't resist inviting other people to weigh in.

If, for some random reason, Steve wasn't "Captain America" and Tony wasn't "Iron Man" and they had different identities, what would those superhero identities be? What would their costumes look like?

Would Tony's alter ego still be openly tech focused, or would he use tech to create a new theme? If so, what theme? Would Steve be patriotic, or try something totally different? Heck, assume that Steve isn't patriotic, since there are already way too many variations on that theme. What's another identity that could suit him?

My brain keeps wanting to put them in complimentary costumes--possibly something in blue and green--and have them fight crime as official partners. But my brain won't cough up actual themes for them. Wait...brain and brawn! Bwa ha ha ha ha! Okay, so I had an Anne McCaffrey flashback there. *g*

Comments

[axolotl-lan.livejournal.com]

WHY WHY don't I have my scan of the Nomad suit- I mean Cap made it himself when he was all despondent about his patriotism!

annd Uhh Tony made an excellent sorcerer supreme.

[crimsonquills.livejournal.com]

I only have the one on hand, but...



*grins*

[caduceus03.livejournal.com]

Hmmm, interesting question... As far as Tony, I can't see him venturing too far from the Iron Man format - his "credentials" as a superhero are too bound up with his technological genius. Perhaps a re-imagining of the armor? Maybe instead of going with the gold and red robot look, he goes for something mimicking a medieval knight? *ponders*

Steve's a little easier because hand-to-hand is his forte and he fights with a shield which is a pretty flexible concept. For some reason my mind jumps to something Greek/Roman/gladiatorial or something along those lines. Although that might be because I've just remembered that in the original Greek Olympics, the contestants wrestled naked. ^_~ *continues thinking*

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

For some reason my mind jumps to something Greek/Roman/gladiatorial or something along those lines.

My immediate response to the original post was to picture him in Wonder Woman's costume (well, the more ancient Greek warrior-looking versions of it from JSA, with the skirt and metal breastplate, not the bathing-suit and tiara combo).

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

I think that even with a different origin story and superhero persona, Tony would still be tech-focussed. He's too much of an engineer/mechanical genius not to be -- I mean, playing around with the armor or any other kind of tech isn't just both his day job and his superhero job; it's also what he does for fun (well, that and sex and alcohol and driving very fast cars).

I don't know about Steve, though. Are we assuming that he still has the supersoldier serum, just a different alter-ego and costume, or are we positing a completely different set of powers?

I think, based on pictorial evidence from the Nomad arc, that Steve's alternate costume would look kind of like Danny Rand's "look at my mostly naked chest" Iron Fist costume, except with a cape. And there would probably still be little wings involved somehow, because Steve like his dorky little wings.

Maybe Steve could be an ancient Greece/Rome-themed superhero in a vaguely Wonder Woman-style outfit (with metal breast plate and wrist guards and winged sandals and a little leather skirt and a red, white, and blue color scheem and star motif that make no actual sense for his backstory, you know, like Diania's don't). Tony would dress like a Roman soldier with the gold breastplate and big, red cape. But somehow he'd still be technology-themed and have lots of gadgets and stuff. And maybe his wrist guards would shoot lasers.

... All right, I admit it. I just think a pr0n AU where Steve was a roman soldier from the provinces (with a barbarian mother, maybe, to explain the blondness) and Tony was a patrician with a mechanical/mathematical bent who'd been sent out to be an aide to Julius Caesar and Thor was a Germanic barbarian chieftan or something would be awesome.

[caduceus03.livejournal.com]

*grins* Hivemind!

I just think a pr0n AU where Steve was a roman soldier from the provinces (with a barbarian mother, maybe, to explain the blondness) and Tony was a patrician with a mechanical/mathematical bent who'd been sent out to be an aide to Julius Caesar and Thor was a Germanic barbarian chieftan or something would be awesome.
That really needs to be written. Really, really needs to be written. I'd write it, but then I'd get too hung up on trying to be somewhat historically accurate and never finish... *eyes you with puppy eyes*

[pandanoai.livejournal.com]

Maybe Steve could be an ancient Greece/Rome-themed superhero in a vaguely Wonder Woman-style outfit (with metal breast plate and wrist guards and winged sandals and a little leather skirt and a red, white, and blue color scheem and star motif that make no actual sense for his backstory, you know, like Diania's don't). Tony would dress like a Roman soldier with the gold breastplate and big, red cape. But somehow he'd still be technology-themed and have lots of gadgets and stuff. And maybe his wrist guards would shoot lasers.

When I find the time... so never... I am SO drawing that!

[cygna-hime.livejournal.com]

... All right, I admit it. I just think a pr0n AU where Steve was a roman soldier from the provinces (with a barbarian mother, maybe, to explain the blondness) and Tony was a patrician with a mechanical/mathematical bent who'd been sent out to be an aide to Julius Caesar and Thor was a Germanic barbarian chieftan or something would be awesome.

THIS. *flails hands in desperate grasping attempt at indicating the sheer awesome of this idea* Together, they fight--wait, which side are they on again? Of the about seven readily available in the period, I mean?

Yon Stark has a lean and hungry look. He thinks too much. Such men are dangerous...

[crimsonquills.livejournal.com]

I think that even with a different origin story and superhero persona, Tony would still be tech-focussed.

*nods* I totally agree. But when I wrack my brain, I have such a hard time thinking up a way that he could be a tech hero without being Iron Man! That identity is so entrenched in my brain. And when I think of other options, I always end up thinking of other tech heroes who already exist.

Are we assuming that he still has the supersoldier serum, just a different alter-ego and costume, or are we positing a completely different set of powers?

Could go either way, but I think it's more interesting to assume he has the same powers, just a different alter-ego and costume. One could move his origin into the present day to make that easier. But what makes it really tough is that Steve's "powers" are...well, really generic. He gets a lot of who he is as a hero from his identity and history.

I think, based on pictorial evidence from the Nomad arc, that Steve's alternate costume would look kind of like Danny Rand's "look at my mostly naked chest" Iron Fist costume, except with a cape.

*laughs* Every time I imagine that costume, I think of Tony saying to himself, "Okay, this is just too much!" and then leaping on Steve and making out with him because really, that costume demands it. *g*

Maybe Steve could be an ancient Greece/Rome-themed superhero in a vaguely Wonder Woman-style outfit (with metal breast plate and wrist guards and winged sandals and a little leather skirt and a red, white, and blue color scheem and star motif that make no actual sense for his backstory, you know, like Diania's don't). Tony would dress like a Roman soldier with the gold breastplate and big, red cape. But somehow he'd still be technology-themed and have lots of gadgets and stuff. And maybe his wrist guards would shoot lasers.

It's vaguely alarming that I can totally see this in my brain, and it somehow works for the two of them.

[pandax-pro.livejournal.com]

Conversation between Lan and Panda concerning this post: ^______^
Panda: Greek naked wrestling.... oh i love it and Tony and Cap do both love the Arthurian legends--- knights in shining armor would be adorable <3 I wonder if Tony never had the heart problem that made him build a shell around himself would he have? Though I doubt he would have been a super hero if he hadn't been injured. But he loved building things and structural design too much not to make himself a part of it. The suit is an extension of what he was already doing, what with designing the helicarrier and flying cars, and LMDs.
Lan: Well he may have made a remote robot or personal flyer. I always see him as a “what? See my robot pals?” if he weren't in the armor because one day SHIELD would get him trying to perfect their LMD's and then bam, he'd be like “I could do some neat stuff with this.”
Panda: Yeah.... but I also think that he NEEDS to be in it... that he even hated Extremis and what it did to him during the war... how it distanced him with his own humanity. He was the most connected with machines he'd ever been but the most distant to people.
I think that sending robots out would take too much humanity away from the situation. And Tony really cares what other people think... and about humans, even "bad" ones. That’s part of his whole... drunken homeless guy arc. I think in any form Tony would probably try to hide himself--- that's one thing that wasn't the same about movie!tony. He wanted everyone to know what a good guy he'd become! “See I’m bright and shiny and new!” comic!tony wants to be bright and shiny and new in the sense of an entirely new persona-- an iron man who isn't weak like Tony Stark is/was and can be again. Iron Man is strong and independent of Tony Stark-- at least he used to be. With extremis you don't see that anymore... and Tony’s winding up for another breakdown.
Lan: ::hugs Woobie!Tony::
Panda: Ok so-- if Tony went through an event that motivated him to become a superhero, even if it didn't damage his heart which forced him to build a shell around himself, I think he'd still build something that he could hide behind or crawl into. And he might start out with robots, but then I think he'd slip too far into evil territory when the humanity is drained from the battle situations. That’s part of Tony’s problem even when in the suit fighting people hand to hand. So let's say he created something around himself, and it wasn't the armor... what would it be?
Lan: think Booster Gold-- except making the tech himself, automatic force shielding, general protective body suit with enhanced strength and blasters
Panda: So like a suit without the armor?
Lan: Yup

[crimsonquills.livejournal.com]

I think if Tony had a suit at all, he wouldn't be able to resist making it full on armor. *g* Why go halfway?!?

I kind of like the idea of him being the nerve center of a whole lot of robots, but I totally agree that it wouldn't be good for him mentally/emotionally. Not to mention that I think he'd get frustrated with lags in response time. *grins*

[pandax-pro.livejournal.com]

Steve version of above post:
Panda: And it's even harder to separate Steve from Captain America-- he IS Captain America. He’s cap-- he's patriotic and not naive but... kindhearted and he loves people. I think that's one of the things that really motivates him. He was the downtrodden, sick, weak, poor little guy who got run over. He got powerful and he wanted to help those like him. Like Schmevil said Steve doesn't sympathize with the little guy... Steve IS the little guy and he knows EXACTLY what it feels like. I think Steve hides too... but not because he's afraid that Steve Rogers is weak... but because he knows Captain America is strong--
the part that was "always bigger than him." If he didn't have the American symbol of "Captain America" to draw strength from... what do you think he'd try to draw strength from? There’s your answer as to what he'd dress as… something people would know, at least to some extent... something that was bigger then just him to the world in general
::envisions cap in a Captain Planet uniform and laughs hysterically::
Lan: I already posted the answer- Nomad- ^__^- it just reveals an additional point which is Steve does not know how to dress himself. It doesn't affect what he stands for and his personality, he just has poor fashion sense. <3
Panda: Do you think he'd come to the conclusion to be the Nomad if he'd never been Captain America and controlled by the government?
Lan: He’d choose to be Nomad or something that fuses both together. But I think he is a bit to humble to take on CAPTAINAMERICA without it being given to him like an honorarium
Panda: Yeah I agree. He's been pushed to be in the forefront a lot.

[pandanoai.livejournal.com]

oh right! like elspeth said... with wings! whatever steve made he'd have wings (like tony's whatever-it-is-he-ends-up-in would be red and gold)

[crimsonquills.livejournal.com]

I don't think Steve would end up as Nomad just because Nomad came out of his disillusionment with the government. Nomad was "the man without a country". So I don't think he could be Nomad without being Captain America first.

I also think that it was Steve's inner strength that gave strength to Captain America, not that Captain America gave Steve strength. Steve may be the little guy, but it's his own heart and determination that make him stand up for others. I know Steve has said that Captain America is bigger than him, but he's the one who built it up that way. He's just too humble to say so.

As for another identity...Steve became Captain America because he tried to enlist and couldn't, and he tried to enlist because he saw the terrible things happening in Europe and wanted to help. So maybe another possible identity would be as some sort of protector... Hmmm.

[simmysim.livejournal.com]

Batman and Superman I AM SO HILARIOUS HURRHURRHURR

No, seriously. Hm. Well, a lot of Iron Man's original bit was how the suit kept him alive. Change that and we've got a whole different beast. Like, if he just witnessed some horrible crime and decided to go from there, instead of the shrapnel/Yinsen thing. I don't know if it'd be the full suit of armor we know today, maybe instead he'd just have selective covering, a chest plate, arm guards, rocket boots, a helmet. Oh, maybe something more like the Rocketeer type deal. Also I picture him as pretty reckless, cause he didn't have that ~sobering experience~, so kind of unreliable, but still very altruistic.

OR MAYBE something like a gigantic robot, a la Gundam Wing.

Steve goes two ways in my mind: he never got any enhancement and is still a scrawny dude who relies on his mind. He'd be more of a detective, behind the scenes guy. Maybe a bit of tech? Oh, maybe like ~The Shadow.~

The second is him somehow getting enhancements anyway. and lol just being Steve without the Cap part, not much would change I don't think? He wouldn't have as much notoriety, probably wouldn't become a member of anything like the Avengers, at least not right away. He'd still be a force of good. IDK take away his patriotism, he still fights for his fellow man, he still upholds what he thinks is good. I am rambling and I will stop.

[smilingskull.livejournal.com]

The Batman and Superman thing made me laugh, because in the comic The Authority the alternate versions of Bats and Supes are Midnighter and Apollo (two of the main characters, they were originally on a team that was a JLA rip. You can thank Warren Ellis for being awesome for that one) - who happen to be the dark, morally ambiguous, has-a-supercomputer-in-his-head one and the tall, strapping, blond, not so morally ambiguous one, respectively. Oh, and they're gay and married. It's totally cannon. Remind you of anyone, haha? :)

[jynx.livejournal.com]

ohgod. Tony would so build a Gundam

[temperance-k.livejournal.com]

I have no idea if this counts, but there is the Bullet Points (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullet_Points) limited series where Steve is... Iron Man.

Which seems to call for a crazy alternate reality cross, because the expression on Tony's face when he confronts an Iron Man imposter who reveals himself to be Steve would be HILARIOUS.

As for Tony, I have no idea, though seeing as how he lived and breathed tech from a young age, I'm sure he'd incorporate it into his crime-fighting activities. Maybe more along the lines of Batmobiles than armor?

[pandanoai.livejournal.com]

wow ::reads wiki summary:: that was like... the most depressing thing i've ever read :O

though a random steve-is-iron-man,-tony's-going-crazy-now-confrontation would be awesomely hilarious :D

[runenklinge.livejournal.com]

Well, Tony likes the Arthurian Legend. And he loves technology.
I guess he´d still have the high-tech armor going on, but just re-designed.
...that´s it.
Or he could be the guy with the wacky inventions, like the guy who builds stuff for James Bond. (and then Steve gets to be James Bond^^)

If Steve wasn´t designed to be a symbol of patriotism for WWII, what would he have been?

If he didn´t get any powers (super soldier serum) ...he could be something like a Green Lantern (DC)!
I don´t know how much you all know about DC and the Lanterns, but they are a bit like a cosmic police force and their power is in their strentgh of will. They have the rings that let them project their thoughts into reality (for example, envision a huge box glove punching someone - and then you will have a giant floating boxing glove which is punching the bad guy)
That would be semi-reasonable for Steve, I think.
He gets to protect the universe AND he can use his artistic skills.

If he got the Serum, but needs just another identitiy...something like Batman, only not with a bat. And minus some fancy technology (unless he got Tony for that) and the dark edge. Eagleman? Too cheesy?
He should have wings somehow.
Spirit of freedom?

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

OMG, Steve would be a kickass Green Lantern! I always got the impression that Kyle didn't really care about the Lantern oath so much as he did the nifty powers and the fact that everyone kept wanting him to be Hal, and that Guy Gardner mumbled it really fast under his breath like an American kid in kindergarden being forced to say the pledge of allegiance, and that Hal Jordan, while believing in it whole-heartedlly, always felt silly while saying.

Steve though. Steve could deliver lines like "In brightest day, in blackest night, no evil shall escape my sight!" with total conviction.

[morgulq.livejournal.com]

My brain is completely horrible, I keep imagining Tony as a rather-more-successful Doctor Horrible.

...complete with the welding goggles!

[morgulq.livejournal.com]

And now my brain has given me back-story. *shakes fist*

It's telling me that Tony's lost his company and turns vigilante to get revenge...but isn't above helping Alt!Cap do the saving the day thing if he has the time and no-where else to be. I'm imagining Tony as kind of a male Catwoman, breaking into his rival's buildings and offices and stealing the information he needs to bring them down and Cap being well...Not!Cap but still all for helping everyone he can.

Cue slight nemesis-ness that turns to occasional partnership and extreme UST with Tony smoking instead of drinking (it'd get in the way of vengeful masterminding) and at least one line stolen from Terry Pratchett. (Tony would smoke like he had a grudge. It fits. Dependant and not happy about it.)

Which would conclude in a blaze of snoggage and revealed identities and SupposedDeadFormerBillionare!Tony Stark regaining his empire while still sneaking out at nights for the odd heist (for kicks), saving of innocents with Not!Cap and occasional angry!sex. Also with Not!Cap.

So kind of a Batman-Catwoman relationship...

[smilingskull.livejournal.com]

I've always thought that if Tony didn't actually fight, he'd be mission control for the Avengers - sort of the role Pepper fills in the Order as Hera. Especially now that he's got Extremis.

The first thing I thought of for Steve was him running around dressed like one of the founding fathers - only with more spandex and leather. Obviously, it is wayyyy too early in the morning for my brain to be functioning on a normal level.

[morgulq.livejournal.com]

Founding fathers in bondage?

...do not get me started on Medieval Sex Toys. It is the ultimate conversation starter but.

[helva2260.livejournal.com]

*grins* Actually, I really can see them as a Brain/Brawn partnership. Tony would so have to be the Brain (unless you wanted to turn it on its head and find a reason for Steve to have the generation gap other than being stuck in an iceberg!) with all the injuries and near-death experiences he's had!

As an AU in McCaffrey's BB universe, I can totally see them falling in love and accidentally adding a telepathic/empathic bond like Helva and Niall, or helping develop the remote-controlled robot bodies like Hypatia and Alexander...

As an off-shoot from some point in Marvel canon, maybe Tony gets even more seriously injured and has to develop a full life-support system, either during the initial Tony gets kidnapped/shrapnel in the heart/invents the first armour, or when his girlfriend shoots him/paralyses him/he discovers the armour's killing his nervous system due to lack of internal shielding...

...But I can't work out what Steve would be doing differently in that scenario. Maybe he'd be the guy in the armour for some reason, with Tony controlling the flight and weaponry systems remotely and Steve taking control of the hand to hand part and the interactions with everyone else (maybe everyone would think Tony was simply a really good AI or something). Now I have plot-bunnies, and I really can't write them out! No fair!

Sorry, yes, um, other ideas! I really can't see Tony in spandex, masked or otherwise, though he'd look very, very good *g*. I can see him pulling a James Bond though, with a tuxedo, or an undercover/private detective, or something with body armour (like Batman). His greatest happiness always seems to come when he's playing with tech, and I don't think any variant that's still recognisably Tony could resist using tech in some way to maximise his own potential. So I suspect he'd always end up going with either armour or the Bond/Batman gadgets. He's had a lot of new beginnings, so maybe if there wasn't one already, he'd go with "Phoenix" or "Nova" or something similar.

As far as Steve goes, I find it very difficult - sometimes the inspirations for superheroes' names and costumes seems so random (it's worse than heraldry, though I suspect it serves a similar purpose of line-of-sight distance-recognition!). Truthfully, canon seems so obsessed with his patriotism, that we (or at least *I*) don't seem to know a huge amount about Steve's other preferences. Except for his artistic leanings, which means every time I try and think of an alternative costume, I keep having visions of him in white spandex with colourful splotches all over, flinging paintbrushes at his enemies...

[kelmendi.livejournal.com]

As an AU in McCaffrey's BB universe....

That's actually been written. By elspethdixon, maybe?

[sdroid.livejournal.com]

Well...I think Tony would probably be Dr. Doom. There are several alternate universes that tell us this XD *dodges flying shoes* But I guess Doom's "powers" are a little too close to what Tony's "powers" are now.

But, I honestly do see Tony as board line evil genius. Just one little push and he could bring the entire Marvel U to its knees. Maybe that's why I love him so much <3 And, of course, Steve is sort of like the Anti-Tony in the way that he seems capable of only doing good. So I would have to say they'd probably have a hero-villain relationship going on.

BUT! Enough of that XD I think Steve could probably be, like, an uber SHIELD agent, like Black Widow or somebody. Tony would probably be on the back end of things -- working on weapons and tech or doing communications. I was going to say he could be like a one man army like Punisher, but I don't think Tony has the strength XD

[crimsonquills.livejournal.com]

But, I honestly do see Tony as board line evil genius.

Me too. And the way he's been treated by people in the Marvel U--including the Avengers, often enough--it's a wonder he hasn't turned evil!

But I think even in a hero-villain relationship, Steve would be determined to redeem/rehabilitate Tony. He's always giving the bad guys second chances. And third. And fourth...

BUT! Enough of that XD I think Steve could probably be, like, an uber SHIELD agent, like Black Widow or somebody. Tony would probably be on the back end of things -- working on weapons and tech or doing communications.

A couple of people have suggested something like this. I think we have a winner, so to speak. *grins*

How did I not think of this before?

[cygna-hime.livejournal.com]

The natural AU: "I comma square bracket recruit's name square bracket comma..."

Steve is such a Carrot, or possibly vice versa. Tony I'm less sure about placing. I'm not sure he could manage the awesome that is Vimes.

Re: How did I not think of this before?

[morgulq.livejournal.com]

He's totally Vetinari. Or possibly a Black-Ribboner.

BlackRibbonVamp!Tony. Who has substituted tech for blood!

...Fury is so Vimes. Even moreso since Nightwatch.

Oh god...

Let's throw some ideas at the wall, see what sticks.

[truthiness-aura.livejournal.com]

Well, we all know my pet AU (the one where Tony gets zapped into the Warcraft universe and hacks the mana forges (http://www.wowwiki.com/Mana_Forge) and fights arcane addiction (http://www.wowwiki.com/Blood_elf#Magical_addiction), and Steve forces his way there to save him (as a paladin, natch))...but I'm stepping away from that one slowly. Besides, it doesn't really address the idea of other identities; it would mostly fit into current canon (ha! ridiculous!).

Excellent question. Steve's tricky; so much of his identity is bound up in his job. However, you can still count on his sense of duty, his capacity to lead, and his artistic nature. He's optimistic but not blind to reality; he's often underestimated by his enemies as being much dumber than he actually is.

Tony's driving forces seem to be his combination of incredible intelligence and emotional difficulty. (I think that a big part of this is his sense that he should be better than he is, and that he should be able to control everything so that nothing bad happens). I have a hard time imagining him as anything but a techie, but there are a variety of ways that can be expressed: expertise in biology or chemistry, mastery of tactics, even more of a hacker/thief paradigm (since he can escape from his sense of impossible duty that his father left him by running the opposite way).

Some ideas:

* An AU where the super soldier serum doesn't work, and Steve's placed in cryostasis as an attempt to salvage the project. Healing him becomes Howard Stark's pet project; he refers to Steve, aka "Project Century" as "his greatest failure" (scientifically, ethically, or both). Over time, they've developed the ability to "fix" him, either returning him to normal or giving him different capabilities. But Steve's more valuable as a specimen, so Obie Stane keeps him frozen. Until Tony finds him out...


* Tony is a rogue thief who's charming his way through most of New York's social elite, stealing jewels as he goes. Steve is the undercover cop who tries to catch him in the act. Steve finally catches him red-handed in Victor Von Doom's penthouse, but instead of going after the loot, he's hacking Doom's computer systems; Tony is a deep cover SHIELD agent trained in high tech espionage. Enter Doombots!

I'm sure I'll come up with more; I seem to do all my best thinking in the shower for some reason.

Hmm.

[truthiness-aura.livejournal.com]

I'm looking at this twenty-four hours later (and not buzzed to high heaven on caffeine) and realized that I misspoke when it came to Steve.

he's often underestimated by his enemies as being much dumber than he actually is

That's poorly said; Steve is in no way stupid, nor does he project that appearance. What I would say now, instead, is that he's able to maintain a certain innocence and purity of motive in the face of terrible opposition. (Part of him seems to be an eternal boy scout, in the good senses of the word.) And that purity might make him seem naive, particularly to those villains who pride themselves on their worldliness (Vincent Von Doom, I'm looking at you!). Nothing big- just felt that I needed to clarify that.

Also, I got through much of a long day at work today by playing with that second AU in my head. Hee.