AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

[saraid.livejournal.com]

i'm sorry. i just watched this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8pqoh11oN4 a half-dozen times. i haven't been able to read civil war. i don't think i ever will. i just can't -- argh -- how could tony -- why, oh why??????

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Comments

From what I've gathered, the mandate for Cap's death wasn't Brubaker's idea

[jazzypom.livejournal.com]

In that at first, the battle was going to be a draw, but Joss Whedon convinced the writers and editors that a side had to lose, someone had to die (Millar actually credits Joss for this idea). It wasn't going to be Stark because they already had plans for him re: Secret Invasion, and with regards to cap, it was either death or be depowered (lose the Super Soldier serum). Brubaker was offered those two options and took that one.

I guess Captain America as Nomad wouldn't have flown again? He still would have been persecuted.

Re: From what I've gathered, the mandate for Cap's death wasn't Brubaker's idea

[prettyarbitrary.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but I've also read in interviews with Brubaker that the "Death of Captain America" story is one he's wanted to tell since he got into comics. So who knows? Mind you, the two aren't mutually exclusive...

Oy gevalt

[jazzypom.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but I've also read in interviews with Brubaker that the "Death of Captain America" story is one he's wanted to tell since he got into comics. So who knows? Mind you, the two aren't mutually exclusive...

Interesting. This will run and run.

Re: From what I've gathered, the mandate for Cap's death wasn't Brubaker's idea

[jwaneeta.livejournal.com]

I hadn't heard the Whedon angle before. Thanks a bunch, Joss.

AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

It's in that new Civil War hardcover

[jazzypom.livejournal.com]

The one where they only have half the issues (bastards) and the other half is like Millar talking about the idea, and who did what where.

Man, if didn't already hate Whedon before when he shat on The Runaways during his run, I did then when I read.

Re: It's in that new Civil War hardcover

[jwaneeta.livejournal.com]

All the Josshate makes sense now, after years and years of Not Getting It.

Please stop killing people to elicit a cheap emotional shock from your audience, Whedon. It's a failure of imagination. GODDAMN

Tell me about it.

[jazzypom.livejournal.com]

I was never into Buffy, or Angel... that was fine, you know? I was cool with Joss, although he wasn't my cup of tea... then he came into comics and proceeded to trash/kill all the characters I held dear.

Please stop killing people to elicit a cheap emotional shock from your audience, Whedon. It's a failure of imagination. GODDAMN

Your lips to God's ears.

Re: It's in that new Civil War hardcover

[prettyarbitrary.livejournal.com]

Damn straight.

Re: From what I've gathered, the mandate for Cap's death wasn't Brubaker's idea

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

Apologies in advance, because I'm about to rant kind of a lot.

Whoever's idea it was, I've lost all respect for him, because it is/was a cheap attempt to get attention via shock value, and even halfway decent porn is above that. I guess death is slightly less horribly offensive than being depowered, but both are unnecessary and an insult to fans and to Marvel's own (nearly)seventy-year history.

Regardless, what I'm really angry at Brubaker over is the last year or so of Captain America comics, especially replacing Steve with Bucky and making Sharon Carter a brainwashed, pregnant victim. Replacing Steve with Bucky as if he were disposable was certainly Brubaker's idea, and the last year's worth of the comic itself reads as if Brubaker killed off Steve of his own volition solely so that he could replace him with his own Mary Sue. That, and the way he jerked readers around for months, taunting them with hints that he was going to bring Steve back (which is the only thing fans really want from the title, and we/they haven't been shy about saying so so he has to know it) only to pull a bait and switch with Fake!Cap guy... That was the last straw for me. I don't like it when I can sense that an author's deliberately setting me up for disappointment while congratulating themselves over how clever they are.

If they had simply done the respectful thing and ended the title completely upon Steve's death, I'd have much less of a problem with it -- I'd be upset, but not so angry that just talking about it makes me feel sick. They could even have given Bucky his own Winter Soldier title, if Brubaker couldn't bear the idea of not getting to write something where his Mary Sue was the star of the show (hell, if they'd done that, I would have read it and liked it. I liked Winter Soldier!Bucky before Brubaker put him in Steve's costume).

And I'm going to have to end the conversation about Steve & Brubaker, etc. now, at least in saraid's comments, because I truly can't discuss current canon and especially Captain America without getting honest-to-god hysterical, even after all this time, and I don't want to hijack her journal for (more of) my own violent ranting. Seriously, I've been defriended by people over this subject. I am. Not. Rational. About it.

Oh zeen.

[jazzypom.livejournal.com]

I have been away from comics for a while, but I remember back in the 80s, early 90s, people used to write letters to the writes and the editors in chief (back when they used to have reader's letters in the backs of the comics) citing their dissatisfaction with the way things were going... do people still do that? I've found myself drawn to type up a letter detailing my grievances with the Marvel verse as is and send it in the post. Do editors read anymore? I've read that you want to work in comics... I wish you god speed.

Now, for the rest of the rant. I can appreciate a good rant, I'm from the Harry Potter fandom, where you'd have bitter bickerings over characters and where their story was going. So yeah, I've seen hysterical, and this is not it.

I guess death is slightly less horribly offensive than being depowered, but both are unnecessary and an insult to fans and to Marvel's own (nearly)seventy-year history.

Yeah, this. I always thought that Steve should have divested himself off the uniform and taken up Nomad again, and go on the lam, so to speak. Or just... wander off. They could have suspended the title, and the readers would have understood. I'm not really a fan of Bucky, so I can't defend him here.

That, and the way he jerked readers around for months, taunting them with hints that he was going to bring Steve back (which is the only thing fans really want from the title, and we/they haven't been shy about saying so so he has to know it) only to pull a bait and switch with Fake!Cap guy... That was the last straw for me.

Wow. I didn't even know about that. I had an ear to the comics even though I was away, and I had heard the battledrums of Cap's death way before it happened. I must admit, it wasn't until it happened, that what marvel did really dawned upon me (I'm not an American, I'm a Brit, and how I relate to Captain America is different from a lot of Yanks, I take it), and it underscored the fact that Marvel bought into the line that it normally used to pooh pooh DC over.

I don't know what to say right now. I think I'm skipping the christmas prompts and am going to look over Marvel canon and see where it all went pearshaped.

Oh Tony.

Re: Oh zeen.

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

Trust me -- my last discussion of this was hysterical, with sentence fragments, cussing, and general all around lashing out at people. This was the response I wrote after an entire day of planing out what I wanted to say and reading R.E. Howard's "A Gent from Bear Creek" to try and put myself in a good mood.

remember back in the 80s, early 90s, people used to write letters to the writes and the editors in chief (back when they used to have reader's letters in the backs of the comics) citing their dissatisfaction with the way things were going... do people still do that?

People do. I have Ed Brubaker's email address, and seanchai and I have both sent him an angry letter or two (she actually got a response, albeit a huffy and unapologetic one, possibly because she compared his Fake!Cap storyline with DC's infamous WickerWoman!Sue Dibney). Sadly, I don't think the writers or editors listen anymore.

I mean, fan anger over Steve's death has been loud and clear, to the point of people actually booing Brubaker and Quesada at conventions, and yet there's been no change in storylines -- instead, things have just gotten worse.

My half-thought-out idea, developed last night, is to find out if fans would be able to take out an advertisement in Wizard announcing that we want Steve back/want Jan back/want the Avengers back/want the non-stop "events that will change everything" to end. I'm not sure if Wizard would run something that's the fannish equivalent of a political ad (instead of an ad for goods and services), but it might at least shame Marvel somewhat. And considering that there's over 300 of us on the comm, we would be able to split the costs and do it pretty cheaply.

I'd chip in

[jazzypom.livejournal.com]

My half-thought-out idea, developed last night, is to find out if fans would be able to take out an advertisement in Wizard announcing that we want Steve back/want Jan back/want the Avengers back/want the non-stop "events that will change everything" to end. I'm not sure if Wizard would run something that's the fannish equivalent of a political ad (instead of an ad for goods and services), but it might at least shame Marvel somewhat. And considering that there's over 300 of us on the comm, we would be able to split the costs and do it pretty cheaply.

I'd chip in. Even though the pound is in freefall. Anyway.

I mean, fan anger over Steve's death has been loud and clear, to the point of people actually booing Brubaker and Quesada at conventions,

*scandalised gasp* Really? Oh my giddy aunt.

Trust me -- my last discussion of this was hysterical, with sentence fragments, cussing, and general all around lashing out at people.

Man, that must have been a very bad day. Jesus.