cap_ironman | Public Identities.

Tony announced that he was IM way back in 2002 (before the SOD job, I believe), then he did it again for the SHRA (people will hit me with a clue by four if I'm wrong).

Captain America is tricky in that other people have been Captain America (US Agent for example, that Jack Walker guy?). But... I don't know myself.

I wonder if they writers themselves are confused... But thanks for the update!

I don't think they speak to each other, or even look at past canon anymore. Bah. But yeah, people should know that IM is Tony Stark.

Several other people have briefly been Captain America, but as far as the general public knows, Captain America has always = Steve Rogers (the Cap from the fifties, for example, who had Jack Monroe as his ~~abused boyfriend~~ pretend!Bucky, was pretending to be him).

...wait, that sounds like there was cracky subtext, and I want in!

I can't remember anymore if Fake!Cap was canonically abusing Jack, or if they're relationship was simply the kind of dysfunctional that implied abuse, but Jack ended up being Nomad after Steve got over himself and stopped his "I don't want to be Captain America anymore" temper-tantrum and really clearly had a huge crush on Steve.

Is the Fake!Cap in question the one who will later become "US Agent", because I've been reading the two volumes of Operation: Galactic Storm (with difficulty because I don't care about most of the comic crossover), and it seem to me that US Agent's superpower is being an asshole who is very good at pissing people off. That jerkass joked that he voted for Mockingbird to be on the team, because at least she's easy on the eye...and then he insulted She-Hulk's waistline.

Come to think of it, from one of the first issue of the Ultimates I came across, the one where Ult!Cap is a jerkass who told the Scarlet Witch she should cover up more in a "stop dressing like a slut" kinda way (as oppose to, "Wanda, aren't you cold right now?" *concerned* way), is Ult!Cap actually US Agent as opposed to Steve Rogers?

Is the Fake!Cap in question the one who will later become "US Agent",

No, he's one of two Fake!Caps currently running around in Captain America (the other being Bucky). I'm not sure anyone actually knows his name -- he was pretending to be Steve when the precursor to the Weapon X program had him running around in costume in the 50s, and even jack Monroe didn't know who he really was.

John Walker is his own, unique kind of asshole.

it seem to me that US Agent's superpower is being an asshole who is very good at pissing people off.

It... pretty much is. The last I heard of him, he'd been inexplicably sent to Canada to be on their Initiative version of Alpha Flight (why the hell Canada has an Initiative team when the Initiative is a US Government program, I don't know). I assume he's probably been deported by this point.

There's a certain amusement value in watching other characters try to put up with him, though. Force Works mostly makes me want to gouge my own eyes out because the art is so godawful, but it also makes me feel really bad for Clint & Rhodey, who are stuck on a team with US Agent, mind-controlled!Tony, and crazy!Wanda. The really sad thing is that the basic premise should have been interesting, and the combination of personalities should have led to really entertaining character interactions, but the writing was so utterly horrible that all it does is make you cringe.

is Ult!Cap actually US Agent as opposed to Steve Rogers?

That's my secret theory regarding Ultimates, anyway -- that Millar got US Agent and Captain America mixed up. Supposedly, he's intended to be Steve, but in terms of characterizations he's pretty much a carbon copy of John Walker (except for the being a NASCAR fan from Alabama part, because US Agent is basically every red state stereotype come to life).

Steve was unmasked in 2001 for sure. There was a series dealing with the 9/11 attacks and at one point Steve is on TV and is all "America didn't kill this guy *remove mask* I did"

Now whether anyone knew before then and he was just making a point or whether that was an official unmasking, I don't know.

In the Secret War trade paperback I have (which is about Nick Fury being stupid, not the Beyonder)the SHIELD notes say Captain America's identity status is public, and the trade is came out in 2005 and I think it's collecting a story for 2004-ish.

So my guess is that at least 2001- on Steve was known as Cap, before that no idea at all.

Edited 2008-12-08 12:31 (UTC)

Yeah, I remember it coming up in Alias, since the first story arc is about Jessica finding out Cap's identity, and then a few arcs later someone is all "Hey did you hear that Cap unmasked?"

Hey did you hear that Cap unmasked?
Cool. I keep wanting to pick those up to get a better feel for Jessica.

Heh you know the real reason Steve did it was to make his art sell better. The minute after he unmasked the price of his artwork increased exponentially =P (joking of course)

The status of Tony's identity is weird. He keeps going public and then taking it back, or saying that someone else is wearing the suit now. During the pre-Civil War New Avengers, his identity is supposed to be secret. But most people in the superhero community can be assumed to know that it's him, and it wouldn't be unreasonable to have an ordinary person believe that it's him, given past evidence, even if he's denying it.

He keeps going public and then taking it back, or saying that someone else is wearing the suit now.

I always found that really weird... Seriously, you'd think in one of those press conferences he holds above not being Iron man anymore, there would be a reporter snorting loudly, "YEEAAAH RIGGGGHHHHHHT"

Edited 2008-12-09 13:40 (UTC)

I know! *laughs* I think Marvel must have the most gullible reporters (maybe people in general?) in the multiverse. *g*

*points* What Crimson said. There's also the time he b rainwashed everyone with a satellite to forget he was Iron Man. People got piiiiiiiissed with him (people by the name of Cap)

I've heard that brainwashing thing mentioned before, but I've never been able to find it. I have issues where I think Pepper or someone is reflecting bitterly about it -- was it back in the 90s?

It so hard to keep track of 40 years of canon, especially with a flipfloppy issue like Tony's identity.

ohgod. i forget. i saw it on scans_daily like, a week or so ago

It was the 1998 Captain America/Iron Man Annual. In it, Tony & Steve go to a tropical island and fight Modok, all the while bickering at one another like an old married couple ("Tony, think of something to get us out of this!" "What do you mean, think of something? All my plans are evil, remember?" and so forth).

Okay, I think I need to have that. It sounds delicious. :D

There are levels of secrecy, too. My general memory of Steve is that it started out not secret (since it had been long revealed after the war who had served as Captain America), and then there was a gambit with a fake body to make it secret again; but it was never secret to his close hero community friends. He had enough of a secret identity that he worked as an artist (for his own comic at one point), a cop, and so on, and there were occasional 'you didn't trust me' events when non-hero friends found out. They mostly forgave pretty quick, but Connie, who he was dating, did break up with him over it.

Then in 2001 it was revealed again, and he pretty much gave up having a private identity. He worked for SHIELD, when not being an Avenger.

Tony was secret to everyone, including friends (and when they found out, there was accompanying angst.) Well after he had revealed it to his friends, he went public, then a few years later pulled the mind wiping satellite maneuver to wipe it out again. I think close friends mostly found out again fairly quick, and then he's been public again for most of the 2000s.

Steve's never really had a secret identity post-unfreezing, in that Captain America's identity was already public knowledge at that point. Back during WWII, though, he spent his out-of-costume time pretending to be "Private Rogers," an ordinary soldier (at least, at the beginning of the war, he did). He's also concealed his identity as Captain America from people on various occasions, but this mostly consisted of saying "Hi, I'm Steve Rogers," and leaving out the "yes, that Steve Rogers, the one who's Captain America." Needless to say, this tactic never worked well.

Tony's identity as Iron Man was a secret from the general public until late in Volume 3 (around 2001-ish), when it was accidentally revealed. He then regained it at least partially by lying kind of a lot post-Disassembled ("I've totally given up being Iron Man! Yes! Totally! Not me in the costume, lalala!") and then publically revealed it again during Civil War.

He's also concealed his identity as Captain America from people on various occasions, but this mostly consisted of saying "Hi, I'm Steve Rogers," and leaving out the "yes, that Steve Rogers, the one who's Captain America." Needless to say, this tactic never worked well.

ROFL. I'd say Cap mostly sucks at lying...

Like Elspeth says, Steve was generally known but as far as I can tell most people nonetheless didn't know what he looked like. I have tonnes of my dad's old comics from the seventies when Steve was still trying to be an artist and such, and I can remember one scene in which he's sitting in a reception room with a secretary waiting to see some guy about his portfolio and she didn't have a clue who he was. His Avengers communicator goes off, Steve waits until her back is turned before leaping out of the window and tearing off his civilian clothes to reveal his costume, and the secretary humourously turns back to see the empty room + open window = omg he killed himself! If only I'd realised he was so desperate for the job! (sob). I have a memory of someone - an Avenger, presumably, but not in costume - calling him Steve Rogers while he was dressed as Cap back in the sixties, and Steve was all like "I don't know how you know that name, but inside knowledge won't help you!" (Proceed to hilariousmisunderstanding!fight between heroes). 2001 (our time) is when it got admitted openly and publically once and for all, though. Which I applauded; there was really no point to Steve having a secret identity.

Tony, as mentioned, complete yo-yo. Back in the day he would admit he'd been Iron Man only when saying "But I'm not now, honest," or when making inventive new use of satellites for mind-control purposes, but he went public just prior to becoming secretary of defense. The reason for the hasty backtrack post-Disassembled is because Joe Quesada can't edit for shit, and on asking Warren Ellis to write him a six-part story didn't bother giving him any information on the character whatsoever or, indeed, correct him when he received the script (a term known as 'editing' in some circles, and a job I erroneously assumed was part of the role of Editor-In-Chief; but we live and learn.) Warren Ellis, unfortunately, had read about three Iron Man comics ever from the sixties where Tony's identity was secret, he made weapons with his company and he had some sort of shrapnel-based cardio problem. He therefore marred an otherwise very good story (the Extremis run) with a random retcon of Tony's medical history (he's now never had an artificial heart or a transplant, supposedly), a random angry mob outside SE (despite Tony being a notorious anti-military philanthropist for years) and a random reinstatement of Tony's secret identity (hastily blue tacked onto the end of Disassembled, probably when somebody considerably more qualified than Joe Quesada stepped forward and pointed out the monumental inconsistency.)

Of course, from Joe Quesada's point of view the sudden secret identity was distinctly fortuitous, since it meant Mark Millar could add even more "drama" to Civil War by having Tony Stark publically announce being Iron Man. Well done, Marvel. Classic story-telling, there.

Sorry, this just became a bit of an anti-Quesada rant.

Hehe, totally get it. Reading Extremis was so confusing in that way: WOO MAN, such a cool power!!! ... Wait, Tony's still dragging a suit in a box and people protesting him dunno he is Iron Man. ... When is this supposed to take place again?

I know! It's like how they moved on to Execute Program and left Nick Fury in it! They ended up telling everyone it was a Nick Fury LMD that had, for reasons unexplained, been temporarily put in charge of SHIELD again and everyone just decided to talk to it as though it was real Nick Fury. Marvel's internal consistency is so far out of tune...

Public Identities.

The writers are lazy

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No, just lazy

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