(no subject)

[cat-13145.livejournal.com]

Following a reply to a comment left on a fan fiction, I have decided to put it to vote.
There are evidently lots of people out there unhappy with the current situation, but we only have 4 members. Thus, I am throwing the floor open. How can we sort this out?
Please Vote below
[Poll #1353164]
I know I probably should have done this sooner, but this week has been kinda hetic and it honestly didn't cross my mind before. Please join virtualavengers to help us out. I apologise for the spelling error with Skrull. I used Word spell check on it, and it said it was alright. Unfortunately I forgot Skrull isn't reconised by Word. Sorry, Please don't kill me.

Comments

It was all a BAD DREAM!

[hohaiyee.livejournal.com]

A season long bad dream, caused by some villain, or maybe Tony's extremis program.

Tony wakes up on the skrull ship. The Civil War was a dream, but the skrull invasion is real.

Re: It was all a BAD DREAM!

[cat-13145.livejournal.com]

Good Idea. Pity I can't add that to the poll. Ah well. thanks for your vote and comment.

Re: It was all a BAD DREAM!

[latte-vanilla.livejournal.com]

I like this :)

[juniper200.livejournal.com]

Why not just go with your gut and write what you think? While it's sweet that you want to fix the storylines in a way that's pleasing to as many people as possible, I think most people would be more interested in a deeply felt narrative that you really buy. Writing by committee isn't likely to produce the kind of work that inspires deep passions.

Just my two cents. I really admire you dedication and your efforts to make the MU a little brighter. :)

[cat-13145.livejournal.com]

thank you. I don't know what I think through, I like all suggestions and want people to help and write too. the idea is to create our own Marvel until The real one sorts itself out.

Wall o' text Ho!

[booster-blue.livejournal.com]

I don't think you can plausibly undo the SHRA without some major draw backs. SHRA itself completely shook up the power structure of the hero/villain world, so it stands to reason that its complete removal would warrant the same results - there's no guarantee that what could happen would be in favor of the "good guys"

It's such a big, looming, thing that to just have it taken out as if it were a frivolous bill, is somewhat extreme. The bill does have its strong points: mainly that superheroes need some sort of training - or at least accountability for some of the major damage that results from their more intense fights. So..I don't know, having it modified so that government employed heroes had to receive some sort of comprehensive training, as well as disclosing their identity to a sort of Super Hero Czar (NOT OSBORN OH JESUS FUCK NO). But if an average citizen that just happens to have a super ability does the whole Good Samaritan thing, they shouldn't suddenly have to sacrifice their lives and become this drone soldier for the gov't.

Re: Wall o' text Ho!

[cat-13145.livejournal.com]

Possibly like it's managed in "What if Civil war?"

Re: Wall o' text Ho!

[booster-blue.livejournal.com]

Basically.

Re: Wall o' text Ho!

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

a sort of Super Hero Czar (NOT OSBORN OH JESUS FUCK NO).

I now desperately wish our own gov't had a Superhero Czar (who was not Osborn). In the Marvel U, I'm not quite sure who would be best for the job (not Tony, after all the ill feeling surrounding him) but definately not a power-mad supervillain.

It's just that almost every powerful politician or businessman in Marvel is a powermad supervillain.

Re: Wall o' text Ho!

[booster-blue.livejournal.com]

Well..Dr, Strange could maybe fit the bill? He's got a nice record of being painfully neutral during big events, but he's not some heartless type that couldn't empathize with the individual. So he'd maybe be a good starting point.

Re: Wall o' text Ho!

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

I can't see Strange doing all that well in Washington, though, given his extremely low tolerance for stupidity.

Maybe Gyrich could do it. He's kind of corrupt, true, but unlike Osborn, he's not actively psychotic.

Re: Wall o' text Ho!

[booster-blue.livejournal.com]

Don't know how "sort of" corrupt he'd stay in Washington, though... But it would be interesting to see how it'd play out with him holding the cards, as it were.

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

I definately vote for Steve being alive, because, let's face it - it's impossible to fix the Marvel U if he's not, since his death is about 75% of what is wrong with it (the other 25% being a mix of female characters getting 'fridged and Brand New Day).

It might be interesting to, rather than resurrecting him, just go AU from Captain America #25 and have him get shot but not die. That way you keep all the "Holy Fuck, someone shot Captain America" shock, and Tony would still have something to feel terribly guilty over, but Steve is still around. Also, if Steve lives to go on trial for resisting the SHRA, that could be your chance/excuse to modify it and/or otherwise make it less totalitarianly evil, since public opinion might turn against the creepier parts of it while Steve's trial is all over the news.

Plus, Matt Murdock could totally defend him.

Also, from the poll, it looks like everyone wants Jan Van Dyne to Not Be Fridged (including me), but I'd look to put in a vote for Clint and Ms. Marvel's continued presence, as well.

[cat-13145.livejournal.com]

That and the current obession with characters killing lol.
Sounds like a good idea, but I'm not closing any doors at the moment.

[amf-wip.livejournal.com]

What's the good of being a super soldier if you can't be shot once or twice and live?

I like it. :) And the idea of Matt defending him is terrific. :)

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

It's probably a slightly intimidating plotbunng (given that it would involve knowing Daredevil characters as well as Avengers characters, and would involve all kinds of legal stuff), but wouldn't that rock?

I have the hugest weakness for Daredevil storylines where Matt is shown actually doing lawyerly stuff. It comes from having read too many John Grissom novels, I suspect, and seeing too many episodes of Law & Order.

[amf-wip.livejournal.com]

Research, research, research... :D I'd rather stick with Tony though. I don't know Matt terribly well, except for having seen the movie.

[helva2260.livejournal.com]

I always wondered whether putting Steve on trial was Tony's long-term plan for fixing the thoroughly bad parts of the SHRA. I mean, put Steve in full battered and torn costume, looking dignified rather than pathetic and downtrodden, and let him and the defence really talk about why there was so much wrong with the situation, in a way that was certain to be taken notice of by the legal system as well as the press...

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

It would have been the perfect way to at least try to mitigate the damage of the SHRA - IMO, Marvel are idiots for going the cheap shock value route of killing Steve off instead of exploring all the potential complications of the whole Steve-on-trial situation.

OMG Steve doesn't die!

[lupus-dragon.livejournal.com]

Why do I feel like no one has thought of this before? Or, why not write it if they've thought about it. Thank you so much for the delicious plot bunny. Now I have something to seriously think about.

Re: OMG Steve doesn't die!

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

Write it! Write it! It would be so awesome - and much messier in some ways then even the suck that is actual canon, because if Steve wasn't oh-so-convienently dead, the SHRA would get a turn under the legal and media microscope when he went on trial (which would be, like, the biggest media-circus celebrity trial in the history of ever), and the government would still have Steve as this controvercial anti-registration figure to deal with, instead of being able to sweep him under the rug and replace him with Bucky.

Why do I feel like no one has thought of this before? Or, why not write it if they've thought about it.

Well, when we thought of it, we were already halfway through RR&R, and we figured one epic-length Bring Back Cap fic was enough (so we took the "putting the SHRA on trial" concept and retooled into "having a congressional committee hold hearings on the SHRA" and used it in Readjustment, where it was sadly lacking in the glorious plotbunny-inspiring scene of Matt delivering a grandstanding speech about injustice to the jury in the style of Inherit the Wind).

[cosmicbiscuit.livejournal.com]

Y'know, someone on TV tropes hypothesized that Civil War, Secret Invasion, et al, had never actually happened. Tony never made it off the Skrull ship at the end of Illuminati, and all the subsequent arcs were technology-induced hallucinations being pumped into his head by the Skrulls so that if he did escape, everyone on Earth would think he was too insane to believe. I like that idea.

[melisus.livejournal.com]

I actually liked Steve's death. It was powerful story-telling, and I really like what it's done for Bucky's character and all.

...I also really liked Civil War... heh.

I guess I'll just sit in my corner all alone, lol.

[northstar-rocks.livejournal.com]

You are not alone ::sits in corner with you::
The whole Civil war was a very powerful and well written story :D

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

I really like what it's done for Bucky's character and all.


Really? IMO, it's turned Bucky from an interesting character into a generic brooding anti-hero figure who, as long as he continues to wear someone else's costume and identity, can never be his own character/hero. Brubaker's turned him from a fascinating character in his own right into a cheap copy of Steve Rogers - as long as he wears Steve's costume and Bru tries pass him off as Captain America, he'll be nothing but a pretender who will never live up to the original in fans' minds (the same way that Jason Todd will forever bear the stigma of being 'Dick Grayson's replacement' and never be thought of as the real Robin). I would have preferred that Steve's shield, costume, and name remain his and his alone forever, never to be carried again, and to see Bucky come into his own and create his own identity, something connected to but ultimately seperate from Steve's legacy (like Sam Wilson has done), instead of spending the next however-long of canon continuity stuck in Steve's shadow.

[cat-13145.livejournal.com]

Have to say I agree. Bucky is good as Captain America, but putting on your mentor's costume is a recipe for trouble, especially for former brain washed russian assasins.
It's taken Wolverine nearly 20 years to sort out what was done to him. Bucky has barely had five minutes. He's a great character and I'm pleased Bendis brought him back, but I'm not sure he's at his best as Captain America.

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

*nods* And on a completely shallow note, why must CaptainAmerica!Bucky's costume be so ugly? It's almost as ugly as the Ultimate-verse Iron Man armor, whereas the Winter Soldier costume was, like, sex on legs. Why, why did Brubaker have to deprive me of my ability to lust after a hot guy in black leather with a cyborg arm? I used to think there was no way short of Liefeld art to make a cyborg arm anything other than ultra-sexy, but Alex Ross's redesign on the Captain America costume has shown me that I was wrong.

I mean, if we don't get to look at Steve's "assets" in tight leather every issue anymore, Bucky still being a pretty cyborg assassin is the least I feel one can ask for *is shallow*

[cat-13145.livejournal.com]

And no more/ very few slashy untones for the fan girls (On an unrelated complaint, can some at Marvel Please remember that when the Black widow was what 10 in 1941? When Bucky was 16. Is it just me who's a little worried about this?)

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure anyone at Marvel knows what age Natasha is supposed to be anymore - she's had her age retconned more times than anybody I can think of except Batman.

[tavella.livejournal.com]

It's *such* an ugly costume, not to mention it was Ross being lazy, as it's a retread of his Spidey costume design (basically, the old costume dipped in tar.) I assumed that it was forced on Brubaker, because a) so much uglier than the gorgeous Winter Soldier costume and b) I figured that surely Brubaker would give the high profile, high prestige shot at a new costume to his own (excellent) artists. But when I expressed sympathy (not directly to him, just on a thread on the Bendis boards) about being forced into it, Brubaker himself appeared and freaked out about it was totally his choice.

Which led me to the conclusion that he's a bit of a dick.

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

Springing the bait-and-switch "You think I'm giving him back to you but haha! I tricked you!" Fake!Cap plot twist on everyone On Memorial Day weekend was what convinced me of his dickishness. I mean, that plot line alone would have done it, since it's so obviously him deliberately raising readers' expectations only to dash them (like offering a kid an ice-cream cone that's been doused in tabasco sauce or giving your girlfriend a ring-sized jewelry box from De Biers that's empty), but it was a really unfortunate holiday to spring that little bit of gleeful fun at the readers' expense on everyone. I know the publication date wasn't under his control, but it was kind of the last straw for me, even more than putting Bucky in the costume (that's annoying, but the bait-and-switch thing was just gratuitously cruel).

[melisus.livejournal.com]

I think the idea behind the whole story though is to play off on the issues you've raised. Bucky isn't the same sort of Captain America (and in all fairness, he's really only on his first solo mission as the new Cap... so we haven't gotten to see him do a lot) but everyone expects him to be. The whole reason he became Cap is because that hero is supposed to be so iconic that someone needs to be him for the sake of the general mundane public. I like that Bucky has so much crap to deal with - having to come to terms with his past and the present that's been thrust upon him.

And I don't see it as the exact same costume. There are significant changes to the image of this new Cap. Because Bucky is a gruffer Cap, a Cap who would kill the enemy which a lot less regret. You're right that he's an anti-hero, but I like that. I like Brubaker's heavy story telling, especially since I'm someone who only recently got into comics so it allows me to really get to know the characters better. That could very well be colouring my perception of it all (being a comic noob), but I LIKE it, and I don't think Bucky's going to always be stuck in Steve's shadow. Right now he's just trying to bring all those parts of him together in order to hopefully find himself.

Though I do agree that the Winter Soldier get-up was nicer to look at. And he was a good villain.

[northstar-rocks.livejournal.com]

For me i can best sum up the WHOLE civil war thing and the thing with SHIELD with two words, and it makes sense to me, and its quite incredibly sneaky when you realize how far back into the past it goes... like even farther than the secret invasion thing goes back. Those two words would be "Hail, HYDRA!!! :D

[spam-monster.livejournal.com]

BOB IS BEHIND EVERYTHING.




(That's Bob(Agent of Hydra) from Cable and Deadpool, for those of you who have no idea what I'm talking about.)

[northstar-rocks.livejournal.com]

OMG Bob is the greatest! I was so sad when Hydra Bob was gone D: But then he came back and i was all like ""EEEEEEEEEEEEP HYDRA BOB!!!" very very happy
i want a Hydra Bodb plushy XD

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

Bob FTW!

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

If you cut off one head, six more shall grow in its place!

(that's actually a brilliant idea, all goofiness aside)

::spoiler::

[northstar-rocks.livejournal.com]

idea? like the Hyrda motto? or what... oh my head hurts i need sleep :) i need to stop staying up so late :) as for the hydra thing i believe that it's currently happening... to an extent anyway... well major i guess

[spam-monster.livejournal.com]

I just want everybody to sit down and TALK about the registration thing like civilized people. After they beat up all the skrulls.