cap_ironman | Ultimates spoilers

Ultimates spoilers

Basically, I can't get the Wizard magazine in my neck of the woods. It doesn't sell. This stuff is in my LJ but I'm cross posting here.

THIS POST REFERS TO ULTIMATE AVENGERS, not THE ULTIMATES

Some SPOILERS from the new WIZARD. This is from a poster over at Millar's site.

Read at your own risk:

- Some big stuff happens in Ultimatum that affects Tony Stark, which will be touched upon.

- The main characters in the first arc will be Cap, Iron Man, Hawkeye, Nick Fury, a new Black Widow and also Iron Man II.

- Iron Man II is a.k.a. Gregory Stark...Tony's blond-haired, teetotaling, older and smarter brother. Nick Fury loves him as he doesn't have Tony's morals and has no problem with crafting weapons for the military. He and Tony had a 10-year gentlemen's agreement to live in opposite hemispheres, but time is now up and he's moving in to take over. His tech is unlike anything the world has ever seen and outclasses anything that Tony's ever given S.H.I.E.L.D. and there's a big secret behind that too. In a later arc we'll find out who's been supplying him, which is a big deal. There's more to him than meets the eye.

- Iron Man himself will be broadly similar to what Jeph Loeb's done in Ultimates 3, for consistency.

- The second storyline will give you Hawkeye's origin. He was once a death-row prisoner, a murderer who was taken in by S.H.I.E.L.D. due to his amazing abilities, given a fake past and straightened out to the point where he even was able to marry and have kids. Hawkeye's big origin will also tie into the Punisher as S.H.I.E.L.D. is trying to do the same with him. He will also be helping Cap uncover the mystery behind Cap's illigitimate son, which puts him at odds with S.H.I.E.L.D. and the others who tried to cover it up.

- Carol Danvers will continue to be in charge of S.H.I.E.L.D. as Nick Fury will take charge of his old Black-Ops Unit (from Ultimates Vol.1).

- The new Black Widow is Nick Fury's ex-wife, Monica Chang, and according to Millar she's a *****!

- The Red Skull is the super-powered illegitimate son of Captain America! Cap finds, to his horror, that he's an international terrorist. The details behind his origin will be secret until issue #2.

Black Widow comes onto the team to make life difficult for Nick and is spying on Nick on behalf of Carol Danvers. This spunky, 4' 10" asian girl is fully capable of busting Fury's balls. She also doesn't give a sh-- that she carries the name of someone who betrayed them and murdered Hawkeye's family.

Pacheco's design for Red Skull is also said to be in the issue.

Because I love you all, some scans! Don't report me, please.

I am ashamed to say - THIS is the reason why I'm working on my FIC overtime. Because all of the stuff in my gdocs will be jossed once this issue goes to press.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

WTF is this shit? Tony has a brother... Cap has a son... what are they trying to do here?

Actually, I'm interested to see what Millar is going to do with it. I'm not going to go all dismissive as yet. Besides, just think of the Tony/Steve hurt/comfort fic!

What, no? ZOMG, too soon?

Either way, I need to get cracking and just get stuff out before August. Oh muses, keep my hands safe from splints, A-men.

I'm always game for some ~~tasty~~ tender hurt/comfort fic.

A-men.

Ultimate Tony with a sibling? It works for me, yes it does. Especially if they don't get along? Oh Lord, the snark will be epic! Epic!

With Cap and his kid - to be honest, he was away and lost at sea, so really, it's not about him. But wow, if Ultimates Steve wasn't hard work before, it will be a hard hoe to row now.

it will be a hard hoe to row now

I see what you did there ;-)

Ultimates, you so crazy. That is about the depth of my logical thinking right now.

Other than, OMG RED SKULL IS CAP'S SON!!1!

Nothing can steal my joy. Nothing! I LOVE it. Yayyy for August. But boo for my fic on gdocs. BOOOOO!!!! I need them to be completed and off! Now!

We have to wait until August? That is the suck part, right there. But it gives you plenty of time to finish those fics (and motivation). Go go go go go!

I'm just glad that i got some good scans though. *sighs* How will I ever explain to my friend that I'll be writing while she's here?

Hmmm... I'll write in the mornings before she awakes, at nights when she's out with her other friends and stuff.

Stuff. Hmmmm.

See, you don't explain! You just do it when she's not paying attention and that way you get all your gdocs finished and the porn finds a home on the internet, and all is good.

I know that she might be renting a car, so I'll let her drive while I map read for justice! While I write fic in between the pages. Yes, this idea has merit.

I'm just glad I got my second wind. Finish your bang, posy!

So, a talented, blonde Tony without Tony´s morals....whom Tony admires, respects and to some extent looks up to, but in reality he´s probably sinister and up to no good - Tiberius!

Ladies and Gentlemen, Gregory Tiberius Stark.

You know what? It works for me.

Mission accomplished^^

So they made the imply incest of Wanda and Pietro canon, and they take another relationship with creepy hint and make it creepier by making them brothers? (I actually want to read that...somehow same-generation is the alright kinda creepy...but I can't get over the Red Skull being Steve's son, because the Red Skull canonly ties Steve up a lot [also why I have a headache trying to handle the Nazi reaction if Steve had been a woman])

but I can't get over the Red Skull being Steve's son
that one confuses me. I´m no expert on Ultimates, but I thought that Steve´s darling (Gail?) married Bucky and had their happily ever after. Don´t you think that he would have noticed if she had a baby? And if she had indeed one, I think he would have been happy to raise it.

Remember that Steve and Bucky were away for a while. Gail could have had the baby, then given it up for adoption whatever, and when Bucky came back probably a year later (they didn't say how long Bucky was away for, but I'm sure it would have been longer than a year since he was the photographer for Captain America and all). Then when Bucky came back, and saw Gail - they grew closer for whatever reasons. Gail might not have told Bucky about the child, and that's her right, you know?

So tl;dr I can see how Gail could have a child, and neither Steve nor Bucky knowing.

And there went soda up my nose. Jesus, that's gonna be stuck in my head now.

And there went soda up my nose. Jesus, that's gonna be stuck in my head now.
I love doing that to people^^

Okay, see, you just made that plot concept almost make sense and not be stupid for me. Now I kind of want to read an AU fic about Ty being Tony's creepy and vaguely incestuous older sibling.

Okay, see, you just made that plot concept almost make sense and not be stupid for me
really? thanks, I aim to please^^

Now I kind of want to read an AU fic about Ty being Tony's creepy and vaguely incestuous older sibling.
...me too. Incest is a big no-no for me, but the creepiness would fit perfectly for Ty.

Thank you. You broke my brain and made me spew iced coffee all over my laptop. That has not happened in a good, long while.

Relevant Icon is relevant.

You broke my brain and made me spew iced coffee all over my laptop. That has not happened in a good, long while.
... you have no idea how I love to do that to people^^

*sigh* You sure know how to convince someone into a new fandom...

Like, if it doesn't work for you, no harm, no foul. But Steve and Tony are still alive in this verse, and both men will be like, rocked to their foundations if Millar is going to go full tilt. If nothing else, the Furys should have an interesting relationship.

I thought Ultimatum was going on and S/T/both were dead/dying? So confused...

I seem to be doing a lot of qualifiers in this post.

Ultimatum finishes in two issues

Steve 'died' but Thor bargained with the Norse goddess of death (don't remember who she be right now) for Steve to live. She accepted the request, and Steve woke up. Tony got rescued by Jan and Hank in Ultimatum, so he's still around wondering... drunk.

But no, Steve and Tony are alive and will be for the present story arc.

I bought Ultimates Vol.1&2 and Ultimates 2 Vol.1&2. I've almost finished U2V1. It's okay, so far. I'm loving Tony in this universe a lot. And Bruce Banner.

Woot. I tell people, the first two volumes are mint. It's volume 3 that makes you want to stomp on kittens. The Ultimate Avengers cartoons are good, too.

Poor Hawkeye. YAY BRUCE! Annoying Jan (not that that's actually new). Snarking STeve/Tony FTW!

*\o/* Score! Another convert!

Ultimates 3 is bumpkum, I'd like you to know, but the novelisation Against All Enemies is good, as well as the Ultimate Avengers cartoons.

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I wonder which part though. Loeb was all over the shop. That might be the design of his armour? Or I guess it might be the fact that Tony was mooning over Natasha? It can't be Mad's rendition of Stark, because the penciller seems to be doing a nod at Hitch's designs.

The post doesn't really spoil Ultimates 3.

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Oh Lord. I want to throttle Loeb and Ultimatum. But yeah, I hear you. The thing with a good writer though, is that he should be able to surprise you no matter how deeply you're spoiled.

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Awk. I'm like... writing fanfic at the same time. Oy.

Oh well, if nothing else, it should be interesting.

I half wonder if Millar is fucking with us. *Shakes head* This is either going to be really interesting and good or a utter train wreck.

I fear. If nothing else, it will be interesting. Millar is... a LOT of things, but not boring.

I'm willing to stick around for the first couple of issues to see how it pans out. Then either read the comics in store and just wait on the trade.

I tend to do the trade thing when I iffy on a title. It helped with Ultmaties 1 and 2 to have the full story all at once because I'm not sure I would have hung on if I was doing single issues. It's almost cheaper to buy trades these days (and I wish DC and Marvel would look at the trade sales as much as they do single issues).

But yeah I'll pick the first few issues because Millar had a good run for the first two books. ~~Is Bryan Hitch coming back as the artist?~~ Ah never mind. Damn I love Hitch's art.

Edited 2009-06-05 21:55 (UTC)

But Pacheo(sp) is a really good artist. I do remember his work from Green Lantern Corps days (or at least, I'm sure he did work on Green Lantern - Hal Jordan) and his stuff is good, and relatively polished. He also gets the job done on time from what I gather. But Millar has said that he'll be taking the visual cues from Hitch's art, so if you note, Ultimate Tony looks like Hitch's Tony, and not Maduerias.

<- That's Mad's Ult Tony.

Okay, I'll tap that.

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I'm willing to wait around and see what this brings. If done right, it will be good. Like, the fact that Tony and his brother have a gentleman's agreement to stay out of each other's hair until they do not? It could work. Like, every time Tony sees Gregory, he feels as if he's five years old again.

And Cap's kid... well, it might soften Ult Steve's self righteous jingoism, you know? I'm honestly willing to wait around and see what happens. A good writer will sell me anything.

Good to see you around. I do hope you're well.

*g* I have to say, when I was reading through the description, Gregory wasn't reminding me of Mycroft Holmes so much as some truly unfortunate LotR fanfic cliches... (y'know, the ones with Elrond's *other* daughter, whose mother is Galadriel; she's prettier than Arwen, she can talk to animals, she talks her way into joining the Fellowship, yada yada yada)

We can only hope it *is* done well, and we don't have a Gregory Sue on our hands!

We can only hope it *is* done well, and we don't have a Gregory Sue on our hands!

From your lips to God's ears.

See, all the new characters strike me as profoundly unoriginal and the Red Skull especially done for shock value, but that's comics. I'll wait and see. What makes me bite myself and whimper is Millar's exciting opinions such as "Like Civil War, we have to be respectful," and "We needed to make Cap cool, and that means him killing a bunch of people."

"He's a man of few words and he gets the job done, superheroes are never like that," I - what? What?

However, he does say he wants to make Cap like Midnighter, so I'm going to assume Cap is going to get married to a guy. (I have said before that in his helmet, Ult Cap grins like the Midnighter.)

Or stopped existing beyond Ultimatum.

...cause dude, the Red Skull
a)is a Nazi, it's his defining characteristic
b)used to tie Captain America up in a lot of foeyay James Bondage...

...and so this is worse that implying that Quicksliver is sleeping with his sister because he really wants to be sleeping with their mom, WROOOONG.

In my neck of the woods for example, there's a growing British National Party presence. There's the rise of neo nazism in this unsettled world, so I can buy into the fact someone in the present day could be a Neo Nazi. In addition, the man isn't his 'son' in terms of the nurturing aspect, just in case of biology. If done right, I can actually see this being quite an effective story. If Millar can tone down his tendency to go all crass.

Besides, Ulimtates is just another universe. It's like... a remix of the 616 one. Just... give it a chance. I'm willing to scan the first couple of issues just to show what Millar's doing.

True, you got the feeling that Quicksilver always wanted to sleep with Wanda because she's Wanda. :P

Tony Stark's long lost evil sibling, wow. What's next, comas and explosive amnesia? The Rosemary's Baby part already handled the twisted pregnancy requirement.

...and I hate how Millar imply that pacifism is uncool, it's not absolute pacifism, Steve is a soldier, he'll use force when necessary, but he actually tries to avoid it. It's good to write an alternate Steve, but fuck you and your implication that meaner is better or more real.

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But, Ult!Steve's not super violent though :(
He's a nice guy. He's why I fell in Love with Ultimates. :(

If Miller keeps his old characterization, Steve is jus slightly more hot headed than Brubaker!Steve.

Now, he is more violent than 90's Cap, but even I'm not down with "never would kill anyone ever or use a gun" 90's Cap.

I didn't actually take him to mean that. I mean all the guys he compared him to Heston, Willis etc weren't violent for the sake of violent really, in their movies, they just kicked butt when they needed to kick butt.

I mean I totally see Cap, even 616 Cap playing the Willis role in any Die Hard movie.

the major difference is IMHO 616 is a bit more mature, a bit more weathered but he's also got like 15 years on Ult!Steve.

But I don't think either are violent to be mean.
The two exception were Ult!Steve has been violent are to Hank, after Hank nearly killed Jan, and to Thor, when he thought Thor had stabbed them all in the back and gotten Bruce a death sentence. And he backed off on Thor, and nothing came of that.

Other than that . . . he's not really mean.
Quicker to act in anger, but again I think it's maturity he's lacking.

A lot of the maturing aspects for 616 Steve also never happened (that we know of yet) to Ult!Steve.

I mean I hate hate hate modernizations that make everyone awful. It's why I don't care for the New BSG much, but I never felt Miller went there over much, nor did I think he was advocating that so much as just saying, look this Steve is less likely to give a speech than 616 Steve is.

Holly Mother of Fuck!

What in hell happened here?!

This has just killed my faith in humanity.

Just give it a chance! Like, consider this a thirty second trailer where Millar pimps the extreme shock bits, but really, the comic itself will be a long, unfolding movie. Just... don't dismiss it out of hand, okay?

I'll read it, there's no doubt about that...

It's just...I don't know, It gave me the creeps for a while.

Hah! Ani spilled the beans.

We're already working little easter eggs from this info into our Big Bang. =P

Also, I say it's AIM that's giving Greg his superpowered gizmos. Mostly because I'm not up for another alien race after the Chitari, Gah Lak Tus, and the Kree. Damn aliens.

And, BTW, I could not BE more excited about new Ultimates fodder.

Our Big Bang pulls all the little Steve/Tony moments from the canon that most people miss because they a) won't read the title or b) attempt to read it with there eyes squinched tight chanting 'If I don't stare directly at it, it won't be able to attack me when I'm sleeping.'

It makes me sad to see people dump on it so harshly without even giving it a try, but hey, more for those of us that love the series, I guess.

Just write it in Sharpie on my forehead: I LOVE THE ULTIMATES.

So there.

Oh, and 616 fans... Our Steve is still alive. So, nyah.

Yeah, I said it. And?

Ohhhhhh throw down. *LOL*
Also, Our Bucky is not Captain America.

. . . Jan may be dead though. So we got nothing there.

Yes internets, it's hard being an Ultimates fan at times. I mean, if you look at 616 Captain America and all the stuff that sounded cracked out like Sharon's brainwash, pregnancy, Steve's letter to Tony, Bucky becoming Cap, you'd have dismissed it as hogwash. But some parts of the story on reading were quite well done.

Like, Millar is a used car salesman, he's going to shock, he's going to pimp. He's coming back to a comic territory that Loeb has dismantled, and he has to rebuild, to smooth, to... to... get in new furniture. Consider this like, his trailer for the comic, you know? It's a thirty second pimp for like a new series that will be in six issue arcs.

I'm rather excited at all the developments that are in the pipeline. I like the fact that the first couple of issues will be Tony and Steve centric.

If it turns out foul, I'll put my hands up and say, "Yes Virginia, it blew." But c'mon, give it a chance, you know?

Yes, I'm preaching to the choir here. *winks and finger guns at ellyr and ani*

Oh, and 616 fans... Our Steve is still alive. So, nyah.

Yeah, I said it. And?

You can't turn vinegar into jam, mein herr. *pats arm comfortingly* But still, crimney, you went there.

LOL.

I love Ultimates. Ultimates is why I am in this fandom.
Seriously Elly was all YAY Tony/Steve and I was all yeah okay, but I'm with the ToS BSG, and then we were watching the extras on Ultimate Avengers I and they showed the Ultiamtes comic and I was all OMG WHAT IS THAT AWESOME!
And bought it and I got back into comics hard core thanks to the awesome that was Mark Miller and Brian Hitch on Ultimates.

And I'm typically an old school kinda person (witness but Tos BSg and Tos Trek love) but, you can't convince me this is the darker eviler canon.
Not with 616 canon currently called Dark Reign, Steve being dead, Tony being stupid, and Jan being dead, and Hank being crazy and OMG GAH.

So umm yes Ultimates just never seemed darker or meaner to me than 616, it just seemed less confusing and more realistic in a good way. I mean god knows I love normal U, but it is convoluted as all get go and I appreciated the clean slate start and where they went with it.

I'm not as big on Ultiamtes 3 but Marvel's gotta fuck it up somewhere, it's a rule. Granted it does make up half of our Big Bang.

I'm pretty excited about the new canon. I was worried Ultimatum would end Ultiamtes, so to get new stuff, and new stuff with a Steve focus, well, it made my week.

So yes, Happy Dance Happy Dance Happy Dance ^__^

you can't convince me this is the darker eviler canon. Not with 616 canon currently called Dark Reign, Steve being dead, Tony being stupid, and Jan being dead, and Hank being crazy and OMG GAH.

Someone hasn't been paying attention to Ultimatum and their gratuitous blood spray and body count (Really, what's the tally now? Beast, Dazzler, Nightcrawler(?), Xavier, Wasp, Giant-Man, Blob, Strange, and Angel have all been offed in horribly disgusting ways on panel, and Thor got offed, but he'll be coming back). And it's canon. Ultimate Avengers has already been confirmed as playing off it.

Let me guess, Big Bro's just so uber-sooper-speshul that he gets to have all the supergenius with none of the mutation problems. I swear to fucking God, if they pull that, I will be pissed.

Sorry to say. In Ultimates, Tony's mutation isn't discussed like that at all. I'd be surprised if Millar took up Scott Card's stuff, especially since Millar redesigned Ultimates Tony a couple of years before Card came on.

Iron Man II is a.k.a. Gregory Stark...Tony's blond-haired, teetotaling, older and smarter brother. Nick Fury loves him as he doesn't have Tony's morals and has no problem with crafting weapons for the military. He and Tony had a 10-year gentlemen's agreement to live in opposite hemispheres, but time is now up and he's moving in to take over. His tech is unlike anything the world has ever seen and outclasses anything that Tony's ever given S.H.I.E.L.D. and there's a big secret behind that too. In a later arc we'll find out who's been supplying him, which is a big deal. There's more to him than meets the eye.

This is the plot of a shitty fanfic. This is the plot of many, many, many shitty fanfics.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Ultimates spoilers

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LOL

I see your point...

Besides

lolz

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I'M SO EXCITED, POSY!

DUDE ME TOO!

Dude! *\o/*

*\o/* indeed

¬_¬ that's a cunning plan, grasshopper

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LOL yeah

Re: LOL yeah

I thought that too!

Re: I thought that too!

Ummm... yes and no

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Dude, give it a shot

Re: Dude, give it a shot

Erm... yes and no

Re: Erm... yes and no

*claps*

Finished.

Score!

Erm

What, Ultimatum?

Oh, no. Sorry, I misread.

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Well, Millar doesn't do halfsies

Re: Well, Millar doesn't do halfsies

No, it's Carlos Pacheo(?)

Re: No, it's Carlos Pacheo(?)

Hmmm... I hear you

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Same.

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I'm going to pretend this universe don't exist now

See, there are many ways this can go

Soap Opera

Re: Soap Opera

Re: Soap Opera

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Dudette, wait!

Re: Dudette, wait!

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*raises glass in a toast* hear! hear!

Easy, tiger

HAPPY DANCE

Re: HAPPY DANCE

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Hmmm... Ultimates doesn't really tie into Ultimate Iron Man

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Dude! \o/

\o/ indeed

claps

raises glass in a toast hear! hear!