cap_ironman | Spoilers For Cap Film

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Spoilers For Cap Film

March 1, 2010 is the deadline for casting Steve Rogers. According to wired.com:

Johnston expects to name the film’s star within the next couple weeks, drawing from a short list of six actors up for wielding Cap’s shield. “The youngest is 23,” Johnston said. “The oldest is 32. Most of the guys in the war are just kids, 18 or 19, but we want to go a little bit older.”

BigShinyRobot.com has reported that:

According to MY studio guy, the rumors about Chad Michael Murray (One Tree Hill), Ryan McPartlin (Chuck), Jensen Ackles (Supernatural) and other unknowns/television actors reading for Cap are true.

Apparently, when the script came in with World War II sequences (featuring the Invaders), the studio heads decided it was beyond their means to make this movie AND afford A-listers like Brad Pitt and Matt Damon.

Sure sounds like everyone’s high on McPartlin, who evidently just lost out on the Superman role to Brandon Routh.

Folks should take the Big Shiny Robot information with a grain of salt. It actually came out before Johnston's interview. McPartlin is 34; meaning if we take Johnston's comments as The Word Of God, McPartlin is out. Moreover, this is the first confirmation I've seen that's Jensen Ackles read for the role. ~~I'm trying to withhold my SQUEEEEEEE~~. The three all have contractial obligations with television shows, so regardless of who they cast, they will have to work around their tv schedule. Murray and McPartlin would be easier to write out of their respective shows. Jensen and Jared are in every scene of every episode of Supernatural. Working around Jensen's schedule will be most problematic. But, like my friend in the business says, "if Marvel wants him badly enough, they will make it out."

Now... Now onto script spoilers.

The LA Time's Hero COmplex blog interviewed Joe Johnston. Johnston revealed how Steve Rogers gets his mythic costume:

"The costume is a flag, but the way we're getting around that is we have Steve Rogers forced into the USO circuit. After he's made into this super-soldier, they decide they can't send him into combat and risk him getting killed. He's the only one and they can't make more. So they say, 'You're going to be in this USO show' and they give him a flag suit. He can't wait to get out of it."

"So he's up on stage doing songs and dances with chorus girls and he can't wait to get out and really fight. When he does go AWOL, he covers up the suit but then, after a few things happen, he realizes that this uniform allows him to lead. By then, he's become a star in the public mind and a symbol. The guys get behind him because he embodies something special."

There will be more than one costume in the film, too.

In the first USO sequences, the frustrated patriot will be wearing a version that is closer to the classic Jack Kirby-designed costume, but then later as the super-soldier hits the war zone he will be wearing a sturdier, more muted version that he makes himself that is more like battle togs. The stripes across his mid-section, for instance, will be straps, not colored fabric.

"He realizes the value of the uniform symbols but he modifies his suit and adds some armor, it will be closer to the Cpa costume in some of the comics in more recent years . . . this approach, it's the only way we could justify ever seeing him on a screen in tights, with the funny boots and everything. The government essentially puts him up there as a living comic-book character and he rips it off and then reclaims some of its imagery after he recognizes the value of it. We think it's the best way to keep the costume and explain it at the same time."

~~Steve Rogers never wore tights you asshat.~~

Johnston confirmed there will be tie ins to Iron Man and Thor, and the modern will have modern day book ends. IGN (and multiple other sources) are reporting the director revealed that The Invaders will "be in the entire second half" of the film. IGN is also reporting that Red Skull will be the Big Bad.

On a happier note, Robert Downey Jr is awesome. Downey Jr recently told SFX Magazine:

"The Avengers" [is] a culmination of the first four years of movies from Marvel Studios. It's the pinnacle, but only if it's done in the smartest and best and most creatively sound way possible. And I'm not saying we can't get there. I'm just saying it would be better to get there and not stay on schedule than to get everyone what they were hoping for in terms of a release date but not do it correctly. And by correctly, I mean my way," laughed Downey.

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I already spent many hours raging with you in AIM, so... posting to use the icon.

I don't even... (goes into a corner to ~~bitch~~ complain stridently)

“The youngest is 23,” Johnston said. “The oldest is 32. Most of the guys in the war are just kids, 18 or 19, but we want to go a little bit older.”

Well, seeing as they want to do an ensemble movie with the Avengers, and their already cast, well-established, and much-loved Tony Stark actor is in his forties, I do hope they don't go with the 23-year-old. I doubt it would stop me from slashing (with that source material how could I not slash), but the one being old enough to be the other's father would change the chemistry and balance of their relationship.

Apparently, when the script came in with World War II sequences (featuring the Invaders), the studio heads decided it was beyond their means to make this movie AND afford A-listers like Brad Pitt and Matt Damon.

Well, good. I'd love a new (or at least not too well-known) face in the role. And, as much as I love Jensen Ackles in Supernatural, I do not want him as Steve Rogers. Sure, hair and eye colour can be changed, but whoever they cast, I want him to be built, as in huge, muscles and height.

"He realizes the value of the uniform symbols but he modifies his suit and adds some armor, it will be closer to the Cpa costume in some of the comics in more recent years . . . this approach, it's the only way we could justify ever seeing him on a screen in tights, with the funny boots and everything. The government essentially puts him up there as a living comic-book character and he rips it off and then reclaims some of its imagery after he recognizes the value of it. We think it's the best way to keep the costume and explain it at the same time."

I think this is a good idea. I could totally see the government doing something like that (it even makes a certain amount of sense -- they wanted an army of supersoldiers, but if they only have one, obviously he's too valuable to put out in the field. So they need to get their money's worth out of him another way) and to be frank, Cap's costume is silly. He has little wings on his head. I'm not trying to be a hater here. My favorite costumed hero of all time, the Flash, has little lightning bolts on his head, and wears red pajamas. I kind of like the silly. But it's not a very practical look for live combat, and I like the idea of an exploration of that conflict between showmanship and practicality.

I don't know any of the possible casting choices from Adam (not even Jensen, though I guess he must be doing something right if he has this many rabid fans) so I'll be waiting until we see some trailers to comment on that. I don't mind that they're thinking about casting a slightly older actor for Cap, though -- considering his backstory, I think it could be made to work. And I totally agree with RDJ that they should let the deadlines take care of themselves and focus on making some awesome movies. XD

He doesn't really look like he's in his forties, though. I suppose the difference might be more obvious if he was standing right next to someone in his twenties, but I don't think it would change the dynamic that much. I see RDJ!Stark as being somewhere in his mid-thirties.

Anyone who thinks Cap's costume is impractical and too gaudy for a battlefield has never investigated what the forces of the British Empire used to wander about in.

I do not like this at all.

Really? What did they used to wear?

This is just supposition on my part, but didn't the British Empire, for the most part, fight people with less advanced technology? If you have gatling guns, and the other side has rifles if they're lucky, an impractical costume wouldn't make as much difference as it would if you were fighting a technological equal, like the Allies were.

Redcoat re-enactors. Note the natty waistcoats and stylish hats. The British Empire went on for quite a while, and while it did its fair share (more than its share) of colonizing less advanced places, I suggest checking out the wars with Napoleon - whose forces also wore novel uniforms.

My major complaint about the USO angle is that it's like spending 50 million dollars on a one-of-a-kind, shiny new gun and then... not using it when someone breaks into your house, because then it wouldn't be shiny. If he grows old and dies without seeing battle, they're getting exactly as much use out of him as they could Bob Hope.

I just don't get it. :\

Oh yes, a uniform that puts a big, white "X" right in the middle of the chest. It's like painting a bull's-eye on the soldier. I can see how that might be counterproductive.

I think it's a matter of Cap not being any of the other soldiers. He's not one of the countless faceless men fighting in the trenches. He's one of a kind, he's a deliberately visible symbol of hope and encouragement for his allies, encouraging them to follow his example and fight bravely, and at the same time the sight of him standing out amongst a crowd of soldiers, standing proud and tall, fearless, strong, and unbeaten, will also strike fear in the heart of his enemies. Impractical? He's not a sniper, he's supposed to be visible! What's the point of having a super soldier and putting him in a flag costume if you don't use him? Yes, his costume is ridiculous, and I do not like it one bit, but there's a reason for it loking like that, and it is part of who Captain America is.

Like the US government hasn't done stupider things in the comic books. Which I'm not saying is right (or even necessarily accurate) I just said it makes a certain amount of sense, given the context.

Also I was kind of assuming that, while they're turning him into this national icon of awesomeness, they'll also be continuing to take blood samples and conduct tests or whatever. If they just give up on reproducing the serum, that would be incredibly stupid. But if they continue doing tests, and at the same time figure, "we might as well get some use out of this guy, it's no good just leaving him to rot away in some bunker" I think that would make sense. I should have said that in my first post, sorry.

If only we'd had sensible uniforms! We might have had the largest empire in history. ;)

Oh yeah, if they're just keeping him busy while they play with his blood, that makes absolute sense to me (though personally I'd just keep him locked up somewhere, but politicians have indeed done dumber things). But the way the director phrased it ("He's the only one and they can't make more. So they say, 'You're going to be in this USO show' and they give him a flag suit.") made it sound like they'd given up.

Wow. Somehow I'd never realized that the redcoats were quite that ornate.

Okay, so people have fought in impractical costumes in the fast. But given the choice between that and something better, wouldn't most people go for something more practical? I'd rather wear what the rest of the guys were wearing, if I was in Cap's place, rather than a blue jumpsuit that makes me stand out from a mile away.

Of course, if done right, that could make that sequence in the film even more awesome, since he'd be deliberately turning himself into a target for the sake of the moral of his men...Insert something deep and thought provoking about symbolism here.

I just don't think the filmakers are really on the wrong track, here. That's all.

RDJ is a great actor, and depending on whom they cast as Cap the both of them could pull it of fine, but I'd still prefer less of an age gap. Just because imo this is difficult enough to get right just so, and there's no reason to complicate it further.

I agree with you, with the caveat that my impression based on the OP, is that the filmmakers want Steve to explore that idea for himself, in the film. That's where I think they're going with idea of him taking off the costume when he goes into the field, only to end up making one for himself once he realizes just how valuable that symbol is. Which is a pretty cool idea, in my opinion.

Well, that's like saying a monarch on the field shouldn't cart a flag around with him, but they all did it. It's a rally point for your troops; and more, it's a privilege to wear the mark of command and be a target - see the panache in Cyrano de Bergerac, where the commander is criticized for dropping the scarf signifying his rank to avoid being targeted.

The Cap costume isn't impractical, it's just colourful. He's supposed to be clearly identifiable. He's Captain America, "these colours don't run", standing up against the black-clad Nazis with skulls on their collars.

I think the movie will waste far too much time on - on song and dance routines! Movies are not long, and I do not want to see this frittered away. It also seems like they're doing this to set him up as a lone operator, whereas Cap is very definitely a team player, and is usually Government sanctioned.

Oh yeah, I can see where you get that impression. I hope they don't do that, my theory makes so much more sense. XD

Well, I have to admit turning your one super soldier into a specimen and guinea pig does make more sense than risking to lose your blue print, but I see them either using him mainly as a soldier, or mainly as a scientific tool, but the symbol factor only makes sense to me if he does go out and fight. Otherwise any mascot would do the trick, and a funny plush-costumed one probably better than some guy who's never seen battle but wants to tell you who has seen it all to be brave and strong.

No, don't like the USO storyline. I know that the experimenting on humans is canon, but this sound s too much as if they'd want to reduce him to that.

It does! ♥ Maybe we'll get lucky and someone will tap sense into a head or two.

I think you're putting the cart before the horse, just a little. This is an origin film; Steve is going to spend most of it thinking of himself as just plain ol' Steve Rogers, who joined Project Rebirth so he could serve his country. So he goes through all those experiments, all that pain and suffering, and becomes something he never though he'd ever be, not even in his wildest dreams -- and then the politicians make him put on this silly costume and sing for people. This is just guessing, but I don't think he'll even like the Captain America persona. He might see it as a mockery, as disrespectful to the men he actually wants to serve with. So then he goes AWOL and ditches the costume. But people still recognize him; they still want him to be Captain America.

(and I'm trying really hard not to quote V for Vendetta here, because wow, talk about inappropriate, but the theme of symbols versus people is so apt right now.)

So he decides to make the symbol his. He makes a new costume, one that's a closer match to his own sensibilities (probably he'll have to modify a set of BDUs or something, which would be a great in-story justification for the new look) and becomes Captain America, this time by choice. Now he's the kind of person who says things like "these colors don't run," and means it.

And then hopefully once the politicians find him again they'll have gotten their heads out of their asses and realized that, if nothing else, he's a far more powerful morale booster if he's actually out there killing Nazis. Cue iceberg.

I think that Cap, as a cultural icon, has the same problem as Superman -- people see him as this perfect, larger than life force, and lose interest in him as a result, because he doesn't seem relatable. This is just my interpretation of the OP, but I think Johnston is trying to make him seem more relatable, more like a three dimensional person with his own hopes and dreams and imperfections. It's a good idea, as long as he doesn't loose sight of Steve's ideals, the things that also make him Captain America. And I have yet to see anything that would indicate that anyway.

I'm rather sick of the notion that superhero movies need to be grounded in some sort of reality. Is his costume cheesy? Fuck yes (they can always run with his Ultimates one, if they're that pressed over the issue), but he was - essentially - a propaganda tool. He's supposed to be larger than life.

And the way it's being talked about..makes it seem like they'll have Steve be reluctant to take on the title of Cap. Which, I dunno, doesn't sit well with me. I like Steve as the super patriotic frail kid-turned-hunk of burning ~~love~~justice.

I'm tired of jaded heroes.

I don't like the starting point of him not being in the field to begin with though. It sounds as if they originally wanted to use their one super soldier not for soldiering, and in that case his main use would be as a lab rat. Yes, this is an origin movie, and it's good to have Steve Rogers do some soul-searching and self-finding before truly becoming Captain America, but, while I'm not very familiar with canon, I always had the impression that he was, and was always meant to be, a soldier. He became a symbol because he was the 'perfect' role model, but he was always meant to be out in the field. All of this, him changing his role, against what is expected of him, from a pedestalled picture of perfection into that of someone going out and doing things, is enough to take up the whole movie, and then there won't be much seeing him as Cap in action in WWII unless they do another movie set before he's frozen.

But that whole origin makes no sense - you don't create an amazing weapon and then... look at it. You use it or study it. And it's not like Allied forces didn't understand propaganda; they'd likely use him like Ult Cap was used, sent on specific, dangerous missions, where just knowing Captain America was there would be a boost for morale and dismay the enemy.

I don't see what's unrelatable about a kid whose dreams are bigger than his body, who wants to do good but doesn't know how, and who gets the opportunity to do something amazing. And I don't see what's particularly relatable about being forced into the chorus line.

By the time the Avengers' movie comes out, RDJ is going to be old, but that could work.

I already spoke at length in tsukino's LJ, but to be fair, the original Captain America story is pretty hokey, and what with Cap's patriotism, it can be taken as jingoism to an international audience - and this movie isn't just for a domestic audience but an international one. Note the fact that GI JOE the movie had the team as an international fighting force instead of US based. So yeah... I can see why the powers that be are doing what they do.

I like the aspect of the USO "you gotta get up, you get up this morning... " and having Captain America as a branching out for that.

Personally, I'd have made it a mashup of Ults and 616. Or just do his origin story like they did in Ultimate Avengers the cartoon.

As much as I like Steve Rogers, I don't know if I'd sit down for a Captain America movie at all.

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Oh, RDJ