cap_ironman | Help?

during Extremis he sais that during the First Goulf War he was 18een, so now he would be something around 30-35, if you consider that in Marvel Universe they are some years behind us but still in the 00's...

He did? Oh darn. I must have missed that. Not that I know the date of the Gulf War, but still.

Yes he did, during the interview with the MichaelMoore-like movie director.
I know the date for the most stupid reason of the World: it was the year my little sister was born and I have a photo of my cusin at the age of 5years holding her at Halloween's Day dressed like Saddam Hussein xD

...and hey, isn't he part Teen!Tony now?

I'm positive we're all trying to forget that.

XD

we are.

IAre you referring to 616? As far as I know, Tony doesn't have an official birthday, but I'm pretty sure they're the same age. Steve was born July 4 1920, and was frozen in April of '45, so I think he's technically 25-ish when he was defrosted. (I sort of get the feeling that Steve counts his frozen years, but I'm not sure of the canon of that.) In Marvel-time, that was 10/11 years ago. So they're both probably in their mid-thirties.

Of course if you're referring to some other 'verse it's more complicated. :D And even in 616, trying to take into account time spent dead, or as a teenage version, or doing the math for Steve's exact time frozen, not to mention the wonkiness that is Marvel Time... It's probably safer for all of our brains if we just roll with "about the same age".

Edited because this would make a lot more sense if I mentioned that Tony was 25ish when he became Iron Man, which was pretty close to Steve's defrosting. It's just that we have a definite birthday for Steve, which makes him easier to calculate for me.

Edited 2010-05-31 22:45 (UTC)

1920? Wiki said 1917! I can't believe Wiki was wrong about this.

And I was referring to 616. Mid-thirties does sound accurate...now to figure out how old Bucky would be during the whole Winter Soldier arc.

Thank you! =D

I got it here (http://marvel.wikia.com/Captain_America_(Steven_Rogers)), for recording's sake. Just like everything else, it's been subject to a few retcons, so they might have moved it again recently. I've noticed that the the Marvel wikia seems to be more up to date than Wikipedia a lot of the time.

Pretty sure the Arlington statue had his birth year as 1922; subject to change!

XD I love our temporally inconsistent overlords.

I went skimming through my Winter Soldier books (I'm a research nerd, I apologize in advance).

According to them, Bucky was 16 in 1941. The explosion that dropped him and Steve in the water was 1945, Bucky was found by the Russians, revived, then stuck in stasis until 1955. According to Fury, the Winter Soldier only aged 5 years between 1955 and 1976, and then when he showed up before blowing up part of Philly in that arc, he'd aged three more years. So, it sounds like Bucky was somewhere around 28 during Winter Soldier, which would put Steve at 32, since it's mentioned in the 1941 flashback that Bucky was 4 years younger than Steve.

Thank you! Now I don't have to calculate his age and get the headache associated with the Marvel timeline. So this pretty much means that there is about 5-6 years between Bucky and Tony. Perfect.

(Also, being a research nerd is awesome. Be proud)

*owns her research nerdiness*

Actually, re-checking, the Russian's thawed Bucky out and put his arm on in 1954. Guess he didn't show up on SHIELD's radar until '55. Just in case that tidbit is vital for whatever you're writing. *eyes her own Cap/Ironman fic that is going nowhere*

It might be, actually. I'll have to see as I write more. *eyes his recently started Bucky/Tony fic*

Though Steve also says in Cap um... 49 or 50 (Bucky's Birthday issue), that Steve spent his 21st birthday in Dr Erkstane's lab (in 1941).

*checks* actually, it was Steve's 20th that he spent in the lab, according to that issue (yes, I pulled out my Road to Reborn hardback). Which puts Bucky's 20th birthday in March of 1941.

*apologizes for her nerdiness again*

You mean '45, surely?

yes, I do mean '45. Silly fingers. *blames her writing group for distracting her*

Steve's birthday would have been earlier -- the first issue of Captain America hit the stands in late 1940, it's just the cover date that was March 1941, and the Rebirth project took some months, so in Brubaker's version his 20th in the lab would have been 1940. Or 18th, if you go with Marvel's official timeline.

I personally go with 'Steve tried to sign up as soon as he turned 18 in 1940, got pulled into the Project, became Captain America a little before the end of 1940.' It fits both the canon timeline and fits in best with his story and desire to do justice. Since plenty of horrible stuff was happening in Europe before 1940, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a 19 year old Steve to hang around and then in mid 1940 develop a desperate passion to join the Army. Makes a lot more sense for him to have to wait to get to legal age and then immediately sign up.

I like your nerd!maths re Bucky. :D

But re Steve... Just because he was four years older than Bucky in 1941, doesn't mean he still is now. He's 25 + however long it's been since the big defrost. And while we don't have exact figures on that, I think it's closer to ten than seven, given that he is supposed to be tied to Tony's age too...

Oh good point. hadn't thought about that. *sigh* Silly Marvel timelines. Worse than trying to figure out the ages of the Robins over in DC.

Bwa ha ha ha. Had that ~~argument~~ conversation last week. ;-p

If Bruce is 37, I can make it work. If he's 33, as Grant Morrison apparently claims, there's no damn room for five Robins!

I haven't read enough to really be able to figure it out no matter how many Robin there are and what age Bruce is.

In my ideal logic loving world:

Bruce 37, Dick 27, Jason 22, Tim 19, Damian 10. I'm less up on Steph.

In Batman's too valuable to ever grow old and retire land:

Bruce 33, sorry Dick I guess you're back to 23, and while we're at it we'd better kill some of your friends' kids lest they make you look old, Jason no one liked you anyway, you can spend a year instead of three with Bruce so 19, Tim 17 because everyone loves a teenager and their wacky hijinx, Damian, yeah 10'll do.

Actually DC compression is more whacked after all.

Steph is about a year older than Tim so she'll be 19/20ish.

I'd certainly put it as at last ten -- the current span of the Marvel history is at least ten years, probably more like 15, and Cap defrosting is one of the big early markers for that. However, per current canon birthdate he was 22 when frozen, so he's 32-37, which I think feels about right.

I sort of get the feeling that Steve counts his frozen years, but I'm not sure of the canon of that.

Definitely canon. In Civil War (I can check my trades, if you like, but I think it's The Confession! right before Steve and Tony argue in Steve's cell), Steve asks one of the SHIELD agents guarding him how old said agent is. The agent responds and then asks Steve the same question; Steve says he's 87.

Oh, Steve. (shakes her head) I'm glad to know I was right, but it doesn't make it any less failtastic. Years as a human Popsicle don't count, Steve!

He does count the frozen years; he says he is 85 in The Confession. And his current official birthdate is July 4, 1922, per both the latest Marvel Handbook and The Confession (which was put out April 2007, cover date July 2007.) He was eighteen when he signed up for Project Rebirth in late 1940, and was 22 when he was frozen in early 1945. Just a college kid in age, but I figure he had that young-old thing you saw in veterans of WWII.

Edited 2010-06-01 06:11 (UTC)

So, in Marvel comics, there's this thing called a telescoping timeline. Basically it means that the father things back are in comics history, the more compressed the time gets (the rough guide is four years RL time = one year comics time). This was done to avoid dealing with 90-year-old characters.

The issue with that is that it also pulls events like birthdays forward. So originally, Tony was born in the '40s, and was in his 20s when he became Iron Man, now he was born in the '70s and still became Iron Man in his 20s, but is probably in his thirties now.

Steve was born... well sometime between 1919 and 1922 (depending on the canon). We know he became Cap in '41 and was frozen in '45, at somewhere between 23 and 27. He's lived as long as Tony has in costume (he was thawed out shortly after Tony became Iron Man, and is probably in his late 30s/Early 40s.

The Marvel timeline is so confusing. But yeah, mid- to late thirties sounds best, I guess. I wish Tony would have a proper birthday. Would make it so much easier to calculate his age.

Thank you for the answer. =)

(Your icon is awesome, btw. I loved that tree-lady)

HoBoy ... let me get out my notes ...

I can't tell you exactly the origin of this info (because I was lazy and didn't cite most of it at the time):

I've got current!Tony born in 1973 either in March or he's a Scorpio, so October 23 to November 21. Getting injured in 1997 and then shortly there after he becomes Iron Man and within the next few years Steve get's defrosted.

There are some side notes of him being a hero on his own for more than a year before the Avengers were formed and Steve being found very shortly after the Avengers were formed. But I don't know if that is supposed to be current!canon or original!canon.

I've also got some other original!canon notes if you think that might help.

As for Steve notes: I have him being born in 1922; based on him saying he was "85" in The Confession. His "actual age" at the time (c. Spring 2007), based on my estimation of him coming back in 1999, would have been 31.

So minus the recent limbo/death time Steve is probably 32 or 33. Tony should be 36 or 37, but due to his own suspended animation/whatnot he's likely a year or so younger.

... damn you floating comic book timelines! lol

I have nothing relevant to say, but nice icon! Definitely one of the best lines of the movie.

Like everything else in comics, characters' ages are pretty fluid, in the Extremis arc, Warren Ellis sets Tony's age as 34 pretty specifically, and that was about a year before current canon. And as of The Confession, working backwards from Steve claiming he's 87, he'd actually be about 35-36 years old (because I'm sorry Steve, but years in frozen stasis don't count.

And of course, if you want to get into really confusing, and kind of lolarious canon, due to the Reborn-'verse, everybody who died and came back actually came back a couple of years younger then they were initially. For one thing, in the Reborn-'verse, they were all pretty much just getting started as superheroes, and were all accordingly younger. And when Franklin Richards brought them back, he kind of... reset them; it's why Tony actually has a real, functional heart at the beginning of Volume Three (though he quickly ends up with new, different heart problems). Of course, that's only physically, and probably doesn't really matter for what you're asking, and I've just revealed how much of a geek I am ><.

As opposed to Natasha, who actually is 83, just wears it well -g-

I thought he said 85 in The Confession? He's definitely born July 4, 1922, according to current Marvel canon and the Handbook.

There are three dates for Steve's birthday: July 4, 1917, July 4, 1921, and July 4, 1922. And what the writers are using as canon varies by, like, the issue sometimes ><.

Though it's pretty widely accepted that the 1917 date was only thrown out there once because it was when Jack Kirby was born, and pretty much no one ever uses it since there's no way Steve was 25 when he joined the Super Soldier project.

And according to Elspeth, he actually says he's 86 in The Confession. Thank God I've got her, 'cause I've got a sucky memory.

Edited 2010-06-01 06:30 (UTC)

Dammit, now I want to look at the panel, but my hardcopy is in a box and my pdf is on another computer drive. He definitely was 1922 on the statue and in the last Handbook, so that's the canon Marvel is currently rolling with as a company. Brubaker's apparently rolling with 1920, but I think 1922 makes more sense for the character, having him immediately try to join the Army as soon as he reached legal age.

...or Brubaker's rolling with 1921 and moving Project Rebirth into 1941, despite that being after the actual first publication of Captain America. He's kind of handwavy about canon.

Brubaker's apparently rolling with 1920, but I think 1922 makes more sense for the character, having him immediately try to join the Army as soon as he reached legal age.

I definitely agree; it seems like such a Steve thing to do, especially since it's not like Germany wasn't trying to play Evil Overlord with Europe long before 1941. Plus, it means that you don't have any random, unaccounted for years in Steve's backstory, and that's generally a good thing.

And really, since Brubaker's been being Creepy McNon-Con lately, I feel no guilt in ignoring anything he's written that I don't like.

And I just got another reason for reading Heroes Reborn. And geeks rule.

I'm going with 35. It seems to be the most agreed upon age for Tony. And Steve gets to keep his 87, for the senior citizen discount.

Thank you for the information. =)

Apparently, Steve is the same age as my grandmother. Or if it's the 1920, then three years younger.

You know, this would be easier if canon characters actually aged at all, which I'm pretty sure they don't, or their ages nudge per generation.

I remember it being mentioned that perpetually, Tony is late-twenties to early thirties. Steve is younger in terms of body age, but not by much.

Steve was born in either 1920 or 1922, depending on which issue you look at (I tend to compromise in my head and go for 1921), and was frozen in 1945, when he was either 25 or 23.

Cue ten-to-twelve years of Avengers-ness (since Marvel!time breaks down to about one year of in-comics time for every four years of actual time, though in ten years this was surely change in order to keep everyone who's not Professor X from ever getting middle aged), and I'd say he's about 35/36 now.

Tony's age is given in the Extremis arc (about four years ago real time, so about one year ago comics time) as 34, so I'd guess he's about 35 now. Of course, he and Steve are never, ever going to get older than mid-to-late thirties, comics being what they are, so they're probably going to be "about 35" for the forseeable future.

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