cap_ironman | Auto Lobotomy Suicide - Canon Cobbling Ramble and Fraction's Possible Claim to Fridge Brilliance

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Auto Lobotomy Suicide - Canon Cobbling Ramble and Fraction's Possible Claim to Fridge Brilliance

Well folks... Now it’s official. Tony Stark has completely consumed my brain. My comp is supposed to go for a check this weekend and I was backing up my data, when my brain was literally struck by an epiphany a la Tony Stark and his Brain-delete. Forgive, if this is all stuff you’ve already considered and/or if this actually is the current interpretation. (Then this will just me being as slow as a tube-light on the fritz <.<)

Right. So, onwards to my brain’s attempts to justify Fraction and integrate his characterization of Tony to previous canon.

One of the things confusing me a bit was, what was Tony’s aim? If he just wanted to destroy the database, well, why NOT jump into a volcano? Ditto, if he just wanted to kill himself. But that little, ‘It’s not that bad yet’ to Dimitri and the ‘I win’, to Osborn... Could it be? Could it be that he was actually using the whole thing to set up Norman Osborn for a fall?! I mean, the start of the end of Norman’s credibility basically started with the clusterfuck that was a) his inability to get StarkTech working, b) his inability to capture Tony Stark and c) his on-international-TV loss of control while beating up Tony Stark... The reason it wasn’t ‘that bad yet’- the point at which it would be *that bad* would be if the only thing he could do to hurt Osborn would be to destroy the database. Right then, he could (and did) also destroy his reputation.

So, his aim, in order of priority seems to actually have been a) destroy SHRA DB, b) destroy Osborn as much as possible and c) kill self!

\o/ Go Tony! :D/D: ?

Second bit of ‘inconsistent behaviour’. The video message he left for Pepper, Captain America and Thor. I couldn’t believe he’d actually try to... well, it *seemed* he was emotionally manipulating them big-time... How could he believe that these people, actual heroes, would just let him die? And the whole setup with ‘I’ll come back without any memories’ seemed a bit too pat, really... I mean, Tony ‘I plan for every contingency’ Stark? We’re supposed to believe that Tony ‘I think my new computer body is the coolest thing ever’ Stark, would just forget to make regular back-ups of his cool new brain? Specially with all the brain-washing he’s already experienced?

But think of it this way (and this was the original epiphany). When you make a back-up of your comp, do you make a new disk/drive every time? Or do you just overwrite the previous back-up with a new one?! Considering the dangerous secrets in his brain, Tony would definitely not have multiple copies of his brain running around! Of course, he would have had a recent brain back-up! But that back-up would *obviously* also contain the SHRA, SHIELD databases- the very information he was trying to delete. So this back-up would in fact have been among the copies he ‘destroyed’ prior to brain-delete! Looking at it in this light, it seems remarkably fortunate (and indeed, over prepared) to have a back-up from some time ago, sitting around as well!

Seriously, how many of us (who actually back up their comps) still have copies of even 2 back-ups ago saved? Let alone (if it was a nightly job) about a 100 back-ups ago?

Coming back to the matter of his deciding to leave his life or death in the hands of those specific people. Why would he do that, if he indeed, really wanted to die? (And here comes the shippyness! :DD) Because Steve was dead, of course!

Well, duh... Of course- Steve was dead so Tony wanted to die, we all know that, moving along now. But that’s not the only effect Steve not being alive had on this situation. Let’s look at the people involved-

Thor- Well, so when Thor comes back, he has in fact given indication of wanting to see Tony dead. The whole ‘this is your fault’, ‘I abhor you’ thing just after Secret Invasion; the silent implication of Jan’s (and Steve’s) death being Tony’s fault; the as good as said sentiment of Tony no longer ‘deserving’ to be one of the original Avengers... Well, why should Tony believe that Thor would want him alive? In fact, from his point of view, by offering Thor the chance to ‘pull the plug’ as it were, was probably a way of trying to make up for his mistakes, by giving Thor the opportunity to pass judgement and punishment.

Captain America- Now, the Captain America, Tony has given the choice to, is not Steve Rogers. Because at the time of this decision Steve Rogers is dead. This Cap is Bucky Barnes, a ruthless assassin who has stated to his face that he hates him, that he’ll kill him if he so much as steps out of line, that *he* is responsible for the death of his only family, Steve Rogers. Why is this guy supposed to choose to bring him back again? Indeed, why would he even come to see Tony upon Hill’s invitation? He hates Maria Hill!

Pepper- This one... It goes a long way in proving my point but at the same time completely pisses me off. You’d think that Pepper Potts would be the one person who’d prove Tony expectations wrong and actually be completely unhesitant in choosing to bring Tony back. But, in a highly unpleasant turn of events, she just shows us the validity of how Tony thought. He’d ‘killed’ Happy, shut off his life support and almost gotten Pepper killed. Would be a sort of poetic justice if Pepper got to be one of the people who made that decision for him, right? After all. why should he get to come back if Happy didn’t?

And *sigh* Pepper did prove him right. But why was he wrong in his prediction of Thor and Bucky? One word. Steve.

Both of their major grievance with Tony was Steve’s death. Well once that was no longer a concern, Bucky’s anger was almost non-existent (he was the first one to say, ‘we have bring him back’). Thor, who was also upset about the clone, hesitated a bit more, but again the most intolerable crime had no longer been committed.

And they bring him back. :|

SO! What do you think? Crazy ramblings of a sleep deprived mind? Or does this make any sense? y/n?

*Is an absolute whore for discussion*

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Well, first off, let's not forget that Pepper asked Tony to shut off Happy's life support, because she couldn't do it herself.

Also, Tony placed his fate in the hands of Don Blake, not Thor. While Thor's honor might have prevented him from harming a man in a coma, Don's Hippocratic Oath absolutely would have, which, to me, indicate's a possible will to live.

Though it is also possible that he was allowing Thor (and the others) to be his judge, jury and executioner. Honestly, it is the twisted sort of way Tony might try to make it up to people.

(Uh... deleted because I realized I completely mistook your first point... <.<)

I actually agree with that. But! Firstly, those paras are just what I think was going through Tony's brain, (as in what he thought, *they'd* think about him) not what I think Thor or Pepper would actually be thinking... Secondly, that is the very reason the way Fraction had Pepper behave in canon pisses me off... That line about 'why does he get to come back if Happy doesn't' is something Pepper actually said in canon... which considering (like you said) that she *asked* him to turn off the life support, she really shouldn't have been even thinking about... :(

Also agreed about Don and the Hippocratic Oath but bear in mind... the actual thing needed to 'bring him back' was not Don's actions but *Thor's hammer*... Thor had already said to Tony's face (post SI) that he would *never* stand at his side again... In light of those words, I can see how Tony might truly believe that Thor would be unwilling to use his hammer to bring him back.

Also, it does seem to be true that everyone's, including Thor's, behaviour towards Tony softened a lot comparatively once Steve was no longer dead. I'm still not saying *Don* would have ever broken his Hippocratic Oath. But Don and Thor are not really the same person and if Steve was still dead, I can see a slight possibility of Thor refusing despite Don's decision... *shrugs*

And yes, so true... Seriously, the more I read Tony, the more issues keep coming to light.... He's actually getting awe-inspiring in his issues-ness... :3

[tilts head in thought] When it comes to actual characterization and motives within comics, I always find myself examining everything we are offered with a grain of salt. Usually I look at the creative team and situation at the time to base my reasonings on since...everything that a Marvel writer apparently does is constrained by the current status quo and the marketing department.

That being said and tossing logic out the window...Tony's brain delete in my opinion stems from the aftermath of characterization-suicide of Civil War. Despite what Marvel did to Tony, they were not going to shuck Ironman in a corner and forget him because hey...he's a cash cow. So you have Matt Faction tasked with the job of "fixing" Tony.

Unfortunately that job dealt with accepting EVERY OTHER writer's flack...er creative direction towards Tony. So instead of dealing with it, I can see how Faction said "!@#$ it" and decided on the brain delete. The way Faction lays out the characterization of everyone is that Tony is letting his friends pass judgement on him. Whether he planned to "die" since Thor hated him and Bucky hated him....[thinks] again I almost say that's giving too much credit to the comic writer since I highly doubt Marvel would have their "heroes" stand by and let a fellow "hero" die - period.

The "not-back up of recent stuff" pretty much played the convenience card, but don't get me wrong...I totally see your point about the back-ups. Again it's the "why deal with it" scenario and if another writer wants to go there - hey back door is open.

[deep breath]
I think this was going somewhere? So heading back to your original points you made. Was Tony using the entire thing to set up Osborn - yes he was. Tony's goal from the very start was to get Osborn out of power since the people of the MU are retarded and think the Green Goblin would be a good leader. What better way to manipulate...er, guild...public opinion then have sympathy then have the living !@#$ beat out of you by one of the most craziest nut-jobs. You can bet that it was also done to help sway readers opinions.

Was he trying to off himself? If I give the writer the benefit of the doubt....I would still say he's letting his friends pass judgement. I'm going to say he doesn't know what will most likely happen because at the end of the day...he knows Thor and Captain America are heroes. It's up to them if he'll be given another shot. And with Pepper...[scratches head] I dunno what happened with the whole "why doesn't Happy get to come back" [shrugs]. It was an attempt to show character depth I guess...

Right! See, me being new to the whole comic fandom... Well, the thing is I'm not used to ignoring canon... So when canon goes in directions I don't agree with I either drift off or my brain goes into crazy overdrive trying to justify/ understand/ map-out the whole thing in-universe... which is what has happened here... -_-;

I totally agree with what you said, but that's like the *meta* reasoning behind it... Those are reasons we can see and extrapolate etc etc... What I was trying to do here (apart from trying to get this off my damn mind <.<) was trying to find a way to explain Tony's behaviour in-universe. Yes, brain delete may have been the easiest way out for the writer (cheapskate! :d) but why did Tony do it? (Since he's not Deadpool that excuse won't work here ;)

I'm definitely not saying that Fraction intended this reading for sure... He *may* have, but frankly I think that's giving him too much credit... This is me saying, hey this looks like a charcter-consistent thought pattern which might explain the recent clusterfuck!

Motto on the MU people... I think I read a very apt word for them somewhere on the net... 'Sheeple' as in mindlessly following whatever the latest tabloid screams out... @_@

Oh, he was definitely letting his friends pass judgement... It's just that at the time he made the recording, I think his actions (visiting Henry, letting the company die, the conversation with Rhodey and Pepper, the 'thing' with Maria) point to the fact that not only did he completely expect to die, he also sort of actually wanted to do that... As in he would live if his friends decided that, he would prefer to die... (though I think he genuinely believed they'd rather let him die at that point of time... because the whole world had been telling him how he was *the worst* villain... People were running to Kingpin rather than listen to him, *Doom* told him that his friends now hated Tony more than they hated him! D:)

[Though my brain has tried and tried and given up trying to explain the recent Pepper AND the Pepperony... ;_; All I can say is maybe, hopefully it was evil!JARVIS affecting both their brain patterns... If Pepper is the mom in the upcoming IM#500, I think I will actually cry...]

The ignoring of canon or retconning takes some getting used to. Unfortunately if comic writers didn't do this...then I think they would go nuts since there is a LOT of canon and other stuff to filter through.

Anyways, why did Tony do it. Er, self-destructive nature? Okay that was the easiest way to explain it...so here is another way you could interpret it.

I think it could be seen as a way for Tony to punish himself. I know, crazy, but here me out. From what I understand of Tony's personality, perhaps it was to ensure he'd have a loose-loose scenario. If his friends, whom I think he believed just truly had it with him, let him die then that would be that. On the other hand if they let him live, then I guess a good way to punish yourself is to erase your brain.

Imagine waking up one day and all your friends are angry with you, your company is gone, you have to accept the fact that you did all these horrible ("necessary"?) things, a freaking invasion took place, and Osborn came into power...and everything happened under your watch. You have no memory of anything which means there is no way you can properly defend your actions - and so you just have to rollover and take whatever comes your way. All you have is your own belief that in the end you were doing what you thought was right, but the truth is you'll never know. You'll never know what you are truly capable of - and I guess it was A LOT since Steve ended up getting shot.

Another way you can look at it is, yes - Tony wanted to die at all cost. If his friends pulled the plug - goodbye. The brain!delete scenario essentially killed off the THAT Tony since we are all shaped by our past experiences. That Tony who after Extremis went through Registration and all the following events is "as good as dead." Unless we encounter retcon...but as is...we assume there is no undo. We can also give Tony the benefit of the doubt that he wasn't in his right frame of mind so why does logic really apply?

Looking back to a Marvel writers standpoint...why pre-Extremis? Simple answer - to depower Tony. With Extremis, Tony got crazy powerful...so Marvel took it back. Like how they did with Spidey....they hit the reset button.

Could it be that he was actually using the whole thing to set up Norman Osborn for a fall?!

I wrote a fic involving that premise this time last year. Tend Towards Decay.

In that fic, Tony apologized for the video message, saying he was in such a low place when he made it he thought they might pull the plug, but in retrospect he knew that was foolish. Thor and Bucky will not let a guy die if they can reasonably prevent it, because they're heroes.

Also, I can well believe that Tony kept the pre-Extremis copy of his brain specifically in case of a catastrophic Extremis failure.

Sorry, late reply is late... -_-;

Anyway! I actually like that story a lot and that is a actually quite a valid theory about what Tony was trying to do... But I think, that is a bit different from what I was trying to say here. In the story, if I got this right, Tony had set up the *SHRA* to fail, whether or not the boss-man was him or Oz.

I was thinking more in the vein of, 'After SI, when it all goes to hell and Tony realizes that he must delete the database to prevent Oz from misusing it, then the whole thing about that finally led to Oz beating him on live TV, was the result of a little Xanatos Gambit' (or Thanatos Gambit, rather -_-;)

Though I agree about Tony being in a baaad place when he made that recording, which arguably may have been affecting his rationality...

And word on the extremis bit! :D (Though I am somewhat surprised at his brain drive apparently being left just lying around in an abandoned building... )

Yes, in that fic Tony always intended the SHRA to fail, but also when Osborn was in power Tony used the brain-delete as part of a gambit against Osborn, to hasten his fall from power. Tony alludes to that when asking Steve if it worked, that people were realising Osborn was crazy.

If I have my timing right, that was around the time when Jan died, Tony lost Extremis, and Tony was deposed as leader of SHIELD to be replaced by Osborn. All stunning blows - particularly, for our purposes, the loss of Extremis. That's effectively a traumatic brain injury. Combining that with the loss of one of his oldest friends, well, I would not expect him to be functioning at full reasoning capacity. No one would be.

Well, it's just a drive. Quietly filed away like any other drive is probably fairly safe.

(deleted and reposted cause duh, wrong account)

As much as I'm a fan of h/c woobieness (STEVE IS DEAD!), and have written fic where that was meant as a suicide (written right after he set it up, before he started on the trek thing), I really don't think Tony had the least intention of dying at any time during all that. It was a plan, he set it up, initiated it and completed it, knowing the players involved and how it would fall out.

Bucky may have been pissed at him, but he was also Captain America and desperately trying to live up to Steve (I don't think he had any strong feelings about Maria Hill, really). Don's a doctor. Thor, though he said he and Tony would never be friends again, well, just letting him die is a different thing than shunning. Plus Tony said they needed him to defeat Osborn (not technically accurate), which they all really a lot wanted to do. Pepper, who he asked to undergo massive surgery and give up her super powers, hesitated, but helped in the end. As he knew she would.

I really don't see it as a huge risk. Which kind of makes him telling Pepper (and co) that he was going to die for sure kind of a dick move.

It was a plan, he set it up, initiated it and completed it, knowing the players involved and how it would fall out.

If that's true, it's possibly the first time in Iron Man history that one of Tony's plans worked the way it was supposed to. :-P

I think I kind of disagree with everyone in this thread, in that I don't think ~~Fraction~~ Tony ever had much of a plan beyond some basic bullet points. He wanted to destroy the database most of all, and that was the one thing where he took concrete steps. He wanted to bring Osborne down, but had no clear method for doing it. He probably hoped to come out of the whole mess alive, but given all the places where the whole thing could've broken down, I don't think it could've been his first priority. I think he was just throwing shit at the metaphorical wall to see what sticks.

I'd buy that as well. Lord knows Tony's planning style of choice "Wing and a Prayer."

Though if he'd wanted the database gone, why didn't he jump into a volcano? Or put it on a jumpdrive and immolate that?

In that he spent that much time running about with ridiculously high chances of getting taken in and vivisected, it seemed more likely he was playing a long game.

Or Fractions Not a Very Good Writer.

Well, I think that's where the "he probably hoped to get out alive" part comes in. I don't think Tony was being actively suicidal when he kicked the whole brain-delete sequence off (though I do think that if it came to immediate danger of being taken in and vivisected, he would've found a way to off himself).

Or Fractions Not a Very Good Writer.

There you go bringing common sense and logic into it. :-P

Sorry to butt in... but a bit of curiosity? If you don't take him as suicidal at that point of time, how do you read the whole encounter with Henry Hellrung and the sleeping with Maria Hill? *is curious* [Personally those are actually a big part of what convinced *me* of the suicidal thing, so I'm interested in seeing how someone who *doesn't* read the same thing from the text, views that... :)

Well, he was going off on an extremely dangerous and chancy mission. Just because he didn't specifically intend to die doesn't change the fact that there was a high probability that he would. I think that's enough to motivate his behavior with Maria and Henry.

Or Fractions Not a Very Good Writer.

Haha... That is probably the best answer to the whole thing, really. But sometimes, it seems that interpreting the story differently can still fix things a bit! In this case, I'm going firmly with the 'Death of the Author' theory of interpretation. ;p

Though if he'd wanted the database gone, why didn't he jump into a volcano?

And *that* especially since it was actually brought up in the book itself, and then his reply is 'It's not that bad yet'... *This* is what makes me sure of the fact that he *was* 'playing a long game'...

Though I don't get what you mean by 'put it on a jumpdrive and immolate that'... Put what on a jumpdrive? *confused* (And by jump-drive, I presume you mean the USB flash drive and not the way of inter-stellar travel? ^_~)

'put it on a jumpdrive and immolate that'

I think the point is, Tony downloaded the database from the mainframe. Why put it into his brain? Or, if he had the capacity to suck the mainframe so completely clean it couldn't be reconstructed why didn't he have the capacity to then spit it out onto a jumpdrive which he would then toss in a volcano? If they can't rebuild it from the mainframe, I really don't think they could rebuild it from his squishy brain.

Or why couldn't he just delete the fricking database instead of putting it into his head and taunting Osborn with it?

Oh! I thought the 'downloading the database into his brain' was merely computer-speak (using useless fancy words) for the fact that he had *read/seen* the entire SHRA and all its entries at one time or the other and basically that he remembered the entire thing? (like when he accesses the file of Yinsen's death, he hasn't stored the file into his brain as an actual video clip, he's just converted his memory into a file that would also be accessible by a computer/digital reader.)

I actually NEVER EVER EVER even thought of it as he literally downloaded the thing into his brain... Just that him being a computer man, his memories were literally downloadable and of course he knew the contents entire database on his own... o_O

*headscritch*

Not sure now. I thought when he said downloaded he meant, well, downloaded. It did seem to read as he moved it from its location into his brain, but I'd have to re-read and see if it could be interpreted the other way. (And I'm kind of disinclined to re-read tbh.)

Also, lol forever, doesn't Extremis have proprietry file formats? Tony kinda has an interest in keeping his memories encrypted. It's ALL MPEGS. :D

I agree with you that he had a plan and he set it up and was successful, BUT like you said, if he *didn't* intend to die, his telling Pepper and Co that he was, is not only a 'dick move' but also a bit uncharacteristic thing to do to Pepper atleast. And then the whole 'sleeping with Maria'... As it was, I can only see that happening if both were convinced that this the last time they were seeing each other. And for all his 'womanizing', one thing that had remained consistent in decades of IM is that Tony respects capable/kickass women.

As for Bucky... Well, yes he's Captain America, but he's also Captain America with a freaking gun in his hands (and a bazillion knives over his person). So, yes he was definitely trying to be a hero, but he had also been one of the world's most dangerous assassins for most of his life. I don't think he had any problem with Tony once Steve was back from the dead (in fact in the Heroic Age Avengers, Bucky has been about the only one on the team who actually talks to Tony... And as I pointed above he was the first one to say, almost immediately, that they *have* to save him!) But while Steve was dead, I can definitely see Bucky still blaming him a bit.

And well, didn't Thor offer Steve's ghost to 'avenge him'? I've only seen the individual pages from that issue but I sort of got the idea that the one he was asking permission to 'avenge' him against, was Tony?

Are you joking? Tony never tells anyone what his plan is! He didn't tell anyone about SHRA. He didn't tell anyone on his team he was going on the run because he was being mind controlled and killing people. He's faked his death a number of times. Without telling Pepper.

As to sleeping with Maria: Why wouldn't he? They were both capable people who decided to have a bit of comfort sex. Even if he wasn't about to die, he was melting his own brain, and that had to be as scary as hell. She was there and willing and one of the few people in the world who still liked him. This is the guy who picked up Jan on the rebound without telling her he was Iron Man.

Bucky totally blamed him loads, so did Thor, but they were still heroes. Both of them are incredibly deadly, both of them could hold a grudge like woah, but both of them are still heroes. Bucky at least was trying to live up to Steve, this involved living up to him, whether he liked it or not. Plus he and Tony had a decent, if not excellent working relationship at this point, so I don't think he hate hate hated him after he got Steve's letter (which Steve had entrusted to Tony, even in the middle of their fight).

In Thor #11, Thor summoned Steve's spirit and asked if he wanted to be avenged. Steve emphatically said that he did not, and that there had been enough killing, and don't you dare. Thor said okay.

*nitpicking hat on* Tony did tell Peter about the SHRA, well in advance. Of course, then none of the writers actually did anything with that, so I'm not sure what the point was. *nitpicking hat off*

But overall, yeah, we're talking about the guy who once mindwiped everyone on the planet who knew his identity. Tony has a number of virtues, but being open and honest with the people around him isn't one of them.

After he gave him a Mafia-esque speech about loyalty. I think he needed a minion.

I think he wanted somebody to back him up in the upcoming political fight, though whether that counts as being a minion is an open question. I never quite figured out what Tony mean in that Civil War issue (was it The Confession? I'm blanking now) when he said that Peter surprised him. Did he surprise him by switching sides, or by ever siding with Tony in the first place? Tony originally opposed the SHRA, if I remember rightly, so did he originally expect Peter to help him fight it? It's all very confusing.

If I wanted someone to back me up in a political fight, I probably wouldn't choose Peter Parker. Just saying.

That was the Confession, and no one has any idea what he meant.

Yeah, but if I wanted a minion, I wouldn't choose Spider-Man. :-P

One of the things that really bugged me about both Civil War and Brand New Day is that they totally derailed the whole mentor-student thing that Tony and Peter had been developing before. It would've been really fun to see that play out without BIG WORLD_SHATTERING EVENTS!!!! getting in the way.

Well, maybe this new Event will swing things all the way back around.

Huh... I thought he'd brought Peter with him, just so that Spiderman could duke it out with Titanium Man and 'prove his point'?

Yes, of course Tony never tells anyone what he's planning. Playing his cards close at heart aside, well, isn't that sort of a requirement of a any long game plan? But leaving that minefield aside, he has faked his death multiple times?

The only instance I can remember is the whole cryogenics thing. Yes, it was very very assholish of him to do so then, and it had a huge fallout in terms of Rhodey getting massively pissed off. That's why doing it again would be so uncharacteristic... (But if there have been other such incidents over the years, then it wouldn't be so...)

Okay, agree with you about Maria... Didn't think of it that way... So agreed... And as for Jan, that was a very different thing. IIRC the thing with Jan, was just after Beth had left him to go back to her husband, and just before the serious drinking arc... So yes it was not a very noce thing to do seeing where Jan was at that time emotionally, but people forget to look at where Tony was too.

Yes, but Thor did ask, right? Which implies that if Steve had said yes (which he wouldn't have but if he did) he wouldn't have been averse to having it out with Tony...

Right. Requirement of long-term plan. Therefore he didn't tell Pepper.

I may be mistaken there. There was the time with the cryogenics, heroes reborn (which wasn't his fault), and a couple of times where he just wandered off without telling anyone where he was going. Oh, and once in Tales of Suspense, when he decided to ditch Tony Stark and just keep up Iron Man. At this point, everyone hated him anyway, so it wasn't much of a loss.

Well, I get that Tony was sad about losing his girlfriend, but Jan's marriage had just disintegrated in an cloud of domestic abuse and madness, ending with her husband trying to kill her and all her friends and landing himself in jail. It Tony (who was a lot older and more experienced) wanted rebound nookie, he could have picked someone less vulnerable. Or at least not hidden his secret identity from Jan.

He did ask. And Steve said no. Which makes it less likely for him to go after Tony, not more. Besides #1 he could have meant Crossbones. Besides #2 that entire comic has been retconned into oblivion.

On Jan/Tony, I think you're being a little harsh - sure, it was poor judgement, but it seemed to me he genuinely wanted a relationship with her, and when it was pointed out he was being a dick, he did sack up and tell her. He should have been smarter, certainly, but I think saying he wanted rebound nookie is unfair.

I came up with a lot of fanon for this, so TL;DR ahead. I should probably note that I think Fraction meant Tony's brain deletion as just a straight up dick move and display of hubris. And Pepper was in a very, very bad emotional place. When you're dealing with something like that, calm logic goes right out the window. I don't blame her for thinking the way she did. Anyway!

One of the things writers tend to forget about when it comes to Tony is that he has a long history of depression, and canonical suicide attempts. I really don't think Tony has any concept of his own self-worth—he's always relied on other people for that. So when you put him in a situation where he's lost most of his oldest touchstones (Thor, Happy, Jan, Steve), it makes perfect sense to me that he'd just hand the reins over. He's doing what he'd always done, trusting other people to tell him whether or not he has anything left to give, because he knows he can't make that decision himself.

From Tony's perspective at that point, he was only worth keeping alive in that he could be useful. So he told them everything, laid the cards on the table, and essentially left it up to Thor et al to decide if his usefulness balanced out how much trouble he is. It seems like an asshole move, but... Well. When you're down that low, balancing the ledger of your life in pluses and minuses and the minuses are stacking up... It's really, really hard to understand that you're the only one thinking about it that way. And after a while, those minuses start looking pretty damned big next to the pluses.

For someone like Tony, going out the way he'd arranged must have been terrifying. To lose everything, bit by bit—all your knowledge, all your memories, all your guilt and triumphs... Tony would hate to lose that, because it would feel like letting himself off the hook. He doesn't seem to have much fear of actually dying, but I really can't think of a more frightening way to go. So he must have had a reason that was bigger than him.

Going straight by canon, it's because he thought he would be needed. That meant that he had to take as many opportunities as he could to get himself into Thor & Bucky's hands, no matter the cost to himself. If he just jumped into a volcano, whatever he thought they might need him for would be toast. He couldn't possibly have planned for the final showdown with Osborn to turn out the way it did. There were too many variables. That was just a stroke of luck. But throwing it all to the wind and just trying to get through alive in whatever way possible? That's workable.

As far as the back-up... IDK. If you work with computers, you tend to keep a backup of every major change you make if it's possible, or at least the past few. Sensitive files, like the database, would be backed up separately in a single secure location. I suspect Fraction just didn't think it through. Maybe Tony went back that far because it would keep the other dangerous part of Tony's brain safe: Extremis. After all, if they screw up and Osborn wins, Extremis would be one hell of a tempting target. Tony wouldn't want to take chances, especially since the odds of him making it out alive weren't good. Why risk that sort of tech falling into Osborn's hands for the teeny, selfish chance that Tony would survive to play with it? But that's all conjecture for what was, in essence, narrative convenience. If Tony remembered, the fallout from Civil War would have gone on and on and on, with people demanding answers and canon having been tied into such a knot that it would be impossible to explain it all. Marvel wanted a clean break to start the Heroic Age, and this was the way the decided to do it.

TL;DR Essentially, Tony was so low that he couldn't make the choices himself. It wasn't an actual suicide attempt, but he left the option of taking himself off the game board open. He gave Thor and Bucky the choice it because they were the ones who would know if they needed him—if it was worth keeping him. Tony gave them the cost/benefit analysis and left them to it, because he didn't have any real choices otherwise. Asshole move, yes, but pretty understandable from where Tony was standing.

Edited 2010-12-21 03:08 (UTC)

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Auto Lobotomy Suicide - Canon Cobbling Ramble and Fraction's Possible Claim to Fridge Brilliance

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