Hi? Iron Man 500?

[fictivore.livejournal.com]

Umm.... So since there isn't really a Tony Stark community out there and I really really need some input on this. Help, guys?

I just read Invincible Iron Man #500 and apparently it's gone into reprint and everyone is really pleased with it. Umm, what did you think of it? Did you think he got Tony was right in what he would or would not do? Do you know anything about Fraction's future plans with Tony and what are your opinions about them?

Because I just read the issue, and... I can't get over it. I don't want to lead witness or whatever in the post so I'll put my opinions in the comments, but please, I really really need to get this off my chest. Thanks.

Comments

[fictivore.livejournal.com]

Uh... I mean, I am really really angry and hurt and disappointed that basically Tony can't even get love in his own title. He has to fucking get his ass saved both in the 'present' and the 'future' by Peter-Parker/Spider-Man. And that no matter what he does, in the end he's just going to fail. Is that really all Tony Stark is about any more? And everyone (the general public, the one that's going to be influencing all Marvel decisions) really thinks Fraction is doing a great job and this is all very awesome? Really?

[muccamukk]

Oh dear. That sounds dreadful.

I have long since given up on Fraction as he keeps doing things like this.

[muccamukk]

This post is completely fine as we love comic discussion, but there is a Tony Stark community: starkindustries.

[fictivore.livejournal.com]

Thankyou! *hugs*

[ollee.livejournal.com]

Some scans and info: http://comics.ign.com/articles/114/1144155p1.html

I haven't read this one yet, but I'm just going to throw it out there that I hate how the artist draws Tony lately.

[cookinguptales.livejournal.com]

I haven't actually read it yet either (I haven't been super fond of Fraction's work), so I kind of need to ask why Carmen Sandiego is on the cover there.

[ada-bug.livejournal.com]

I hate how the artist draws Tony lately.

Ok, I had to comment on this because it bugs me so bad and I have no one irl to complain to. Have you ever seen Lost? Do you know what Josh Holloway (the guy that plays Sawyer) looks like? IT IS ALL I CAN SEE WHEN I READ IIM AND IT DRIVES ME BATSHIT INSANE OMG.

/rant

[ellex42.livejournal.com]

I don't care for how the artist draws anyone...but every once in a while Tony looks just a little bit like Liam Neeson. And not Liam Neeson at his best (which is a shame).

[cosmicbiscuit.livejournal.com]

Even though I'd stopped paying for this title several months back, I caved and actually bought this one because I thought "It's an anniversary issue, surely they'll make some effort at awesome this time." Ahahaha. No. There is very, very little about that issue that didn't completely gross me out, from the art to Fraction's continued hamfisted bungling of the Tony/Pepper concept (not my favorite pairing to begin with, but it can be done well. He is not doing it well) to the fact that this title has become nothing more than "what failure can we whump him with next?" fic.

[fictivore.livejournal.com]

Agreed! ;_______; How can we make them take Fraction off the title?! How??!

[penumbren]

I just finished reading it, and I'm... I can't even say I'm disappointed. It's pretty much what I expected, at this point. I do NOT think it's anything spectacular, unless you use that word prefixed to the phrase, "...load of crap."

The writing fits right in to the standard IIM line right now. That is not a compliment.

What kills me, honestly, is that the editor's column at the end actually shows that HE understands Tony's character. So why is he okay with the current writer continually overlooking/ignoring everything about that, writing him OOC, and showing that Tony can't do anything on his own except royally fuck up?

The only reason I was okay with Peter being in the story is because it looks like a possible first step toward a friendship again. Otherwise, I just don't see the point, because nothing that Peter did was something Tony couldn't have done, and the concept of the backdoor that he suggested at the end is a pretty standard one -- in fact, I think it's one that Tony has used before.

ARGH. Given what Stan Lee has said about his inspirations for Tony Stark, I can only wonder what he thinks of the way his former company is treating him now.

For those who are curious, here's the editor's column:

[jane-says.livejournal.com]

Arbona's words are the only redeeming things out of 60 some pages. But like you I can't grasp how someone that fundamentally gets it is so remiss in his ability to guide the book.

[ada-bug.livejournal.com]

Ugh, I've been wanting to rant about this for ages but none of my friends read IIM so I have no one to actually discuss it with. The only thing I actually liked in this issue were the last few pages of interaction between Peter and Tony. It's only redeeming quality tbh. Everything else was just shit. The writing, the drawing (it distracts me beyond belief, all I see when I look at Tony is Josh Holloway and IT BOTHERS ME SO MUCH), a lot of the plot choices. It was just terrible imo and it makes me sad that this has been somewhat of a constant for, apparently, years. I'm fairly new to comics but I've been reading a lot of backs and Fraction is killing me. I don't understand how they keep letting him do what he's doing. I don't want to drop the series but at the same time it feels like such a waste of money and it's so frustrating. Ugh.

/major let down

[fictivore.livejournal.com]

Yes, so much! I want someone to rant with! ;___; It's like, I'm all for Peter Tony interaction because them pre-CW was one the best new things in comics, Tony needs as much more family as he can get and so does Peter. But in this issue, none of the 'help' Peter gave is anything that Tony should have needed! Yes, I can take Peter advising Tony on emotional matters (even though, wow, guy sold his marriage to the devil!) but none of the technical help was anything but obvious! Tony is a fucking once-in-a-millenium GENIUS! He doesn't need to be told how to track down components or that OMG! You can totally leave a backdoor in your tech! And yeah, make it Spider, okay?! WHAT.

And because people are apparently liking and buying this shit. This is what we're gonna keep getting! Ugh! I never thought I would ever even think this, but I just hope whoever the next writer is decides to go the way of X-Men and simply ignore everything Fraction has written. I want the Knaupfs back, dammit! They had such beautiful beautiful plans for Tony when they got cancelled, now it's not even funny reading about them. They got him, so much!

I stopped reading the comic a year ago, I'm sorry

[jazzypom.livejournal.com]

I had to stop because of the art (can't deal with Larocca). I like Fraction's other work, but not his scribe duties on this.

[jane-says.livejournal.com]

My "problem" with IM# 500 is basically the same as it's been the whole title since around Extremis in 2005; I don't know what the story is trying to accomplish. I get to the end of a story arc and can only wonder what the message was supposed to be. Sometimes I do in see where they were trying to go but it's ill suited to his overall tone.

#500 is no different. I don't hate it, I just really know what to make of it. I feel like there hasn't been for much forward motion in the Iron Man book or of Iron Man in the Marvel universe at large since Civil War. I'd held out hope that the movie would turn it around but that and the sequel have come and gone and it's moving slower, possibly even backwards, than ever.

As someone that's been "reading" Iron Man since before I could read I believe that Tony is a one of the easiest characters to mess up and just about the hardest to get back on track with. People that have been introduced to Iron Man post-Civil War don't seem to notice it as much.

-----

Edited for this little factoid I forgot to add:

Just to illustrate Marvel's general discare of Iron Man did you know that Invincible Iron Man #500 is mis-numbered? It's actually the 503rd issue. Iron Man v5 #31 released last October was the 500th issue.

[fictivore.livejournal.com]

Wow, that is 'beautiful'! Thanks for the info... DD:

It's like I could actually sort of see the point of Extremis. Okay, actually I got in with extremis but once I'd read the back canon, I could still sort of see it. I put that storyline as just after Avengers Disassembled, as in everything goes boom including Rumiko, Tony faces it for a while then Pep ad Hap leave for their own life and Tony fails to cope spectacularly and goes into his garage for 'six weeks'... And everytime Tony is seriously down in a funk, its almost SOP for him to try to kill himself/ do something insanely dangerous and then re-invent himself for a new start. And considering the technological advances, nano-tech seems like the obvious next direction. (I would have VASTLY preferred it if he'd had more to do with the Extremis itself, instead of basically just hijacking another scientist's work, but oh well... )

And Civil War, if they hadn't completely bungled it, with losing control over how the side-comics/titles were showing him and hadn't gone the easy way of 'Opposing Cap = Villain' if was a good character eveloping thing, if taken in its spirit.

All of IIM has just been about beating him down, beating him hard without any reprieve and all the while his characterization's gone right back to what it was when he'd JUST BECOME IRON MAN! That's like a whole decade worth of lessons and hardships learnt down the drain! WTF?! I mean, the guy who at first didn;t even notice Pepper and then when he did, was totally emo about how he couldn't be with her and spent his time matchmaking between Happy and Pepper? This guy, apparently fired someone just because they had casual hots for Miss Potts?! When was this supposed to be!

/eh, sorry... I think I'm very ranty right now.... ¬_¬;

[mostepotente.livejournal.com]

... sometimes I wonder if Tony shouldn't just become a supervillain at this point. Everyone is going to accuse you of screwing up and being out for world dominance when you're tryin' to do it right -- imagine the awesome you could make happen if you were really TRYING to take over the world.

[fictivore.livejournal.com]

Yes, but then everyone would just say, Ha! See we'd been right all along! He's evil! And had always been! And everyone would just believe it right off the bat because the guy just has to sneeze before everyone starts believing he's out trying to kill them with the plague or something. D:

[stargatedragon.livejournal.com]

didn't care for it at all - it reminded me of some bad fanfiction.

but that's just my take.

:)

[fictivore.livejournal.com]

*hugs* I hear you, bb! Some really really BAD fanfic, possibly from the Pit of Voles' darkest recesses! ;_;

[dangwhyme.livejournal.com]

I gave up on IIM a long time ago. I hate what Fraction has done with the characters and I just can't come to terms with the lazy-looking art. I don't know how is it that people like it.

The Brain Deletion arc was still okay, in my opinion, except for some cringe worthy interactions/flirtations between Pepper and Tony and them sleeping together.

I'll admit I raged when Maria and Pepper got angry at an unconscious Tony for sleeping with both of them as if he had cheated on them or something like that when first, they both were the ones to initiate the sex with the man when he was on the run, desperate to escape from Osborn and save the SHRA database in his head from HAMMER. Oh, and when Pepper slept with Tony, he wasn't in his right mind anymore, maybe it was as a joke, maybe not, but Tony himself said back then that he couldn't even remember how to use a screwdriver. That's why he was leaving notes to himself. He didn't remember Happy. Second, he wasn't in a relationship with either Maria Hill or Pepper at the time nor did they ask for one when they slept with him. He didn't promise anything back either. Then Tony comes back and both Pepper and Maria still hold a grudge over it not even telling him what the hostility is all about yet acting as if he had done them an unfathomable wrong.

Pepper hated the Arc Reactor and what it did to her (make her smarter mostly, oh, and keep her alive), she gave hell Tony over it at the time and then she ask-sctratch that- demands that Tony give it back saying that he owes it to her. Why? Apparently (from the flashback shown then) because she slept with him.

IIM makes me angry. At least, I now know Tony doesn't know Peter is Spiderman (if I read it correctly) which is something I was wondering, since, well, Tony had a back up from before Extremis and back then he was in the Avengers with him and knew his identity. I'm not quite sure about this but supposedly Tony, Reed and Strange erased everyone's memory of Peter being Spiderman, right? When Tony had Extremis. So I thought, if he went to his preExtremis back up, he should know Peter's secret.

[angel-inoshi.livejournal.com]

errr well the thing is - because of the whole deal with Mephisto and what have you, there seems to be a psychic blindspot of people connecting Peter=Spidey. So WHAT exactly each character remembers doesn't jive with what actually happened with Peter. For example, IIRC Peter was never humiliated by Tony when he was "working" for him as he claimed in #500 (Civil War hurt aside). Since the brain-wipe, Tony can't really question him about it so I suppose he accepts it. Funny thing though - if I am understanding the whole OMIT crap they gave us, Peter should remember EVERYTHING the way it was with no alteration, but whatever...

Re: *sad face*

[fictivore.livejournal.com]

So much agree! Though I'll say that even though I wanted to enjoy the Peter-Tony banter and did enjoy the uh... concept of Tony-Peter banter, the actual substance of the banter which was basically Peter educating Tony about bloody basics was entirely rage-making. Yes, Peter is smart but smarter than Tony, uh no sorry, not even in the same league.

*SPOILER*

And even though it is a future that is never really going to come true (if only because where the fuck are the other legacy grand-kids?!) and will (hopefully) never even be mentioned again... Apparently the bad future *happens* because Mandarin captures Tony and tortures him into making the Titanomechs and then uses him (with his RT) as a battery to keep himself alive all these years. Wow, what part of his origin story did Fraction forget? Oh, yeah, apparently the part where even as an irresponsibly playboy he chose to fucking build a suit and bust out and very probably die rather than build weapons for the Villains!!! FUCK! And as if the guy who at different occasions stopped his heart and destroyed his entire tech-empire rather than let his technology kill Steve or some random terrorists, would not have killed himself before he did either of that.

That's not character development, that's PAINFUL character regression... DDDD:

For the 'betrayal' I still have hope that it's going to be a fake-out with Tony actually suicidally trying to sacrifice himself for everyone else... And then you know, maybe we can get back to normal.... ;______;

[angel-inoshi.livejournal.com]

Well, I read the issue and I might as well chime in. To be honest, for all the hype they put in this #500th issue - I found it a bit boring. I think the highlight of the entire thing was the preview of Ironman 2.0 - which is probably bad considering that has nothing to do with the story. [tilts head] I think the problem with Fraction's take on Tony is the fact he keeps him at square one. Where personally, I have no idea about Tony's past cannon and how he's really supposed to be pre-movie wise...an interview with Fraction made me (-_-)' and I realized he has no concept of where the character should be.
His take on Tony is a "recovering alcoholic" and while that is admirable and all that jazz, I think he missed the point of Tony's flat out determination to never give up. I think, what I believe Ironman is supposed to be is a character who strives to be better, to change himself so that he doesn't have to hate himself so much. He's a character that...needs to make people acknowledge the real him and not the one that everyone else paints him out to be.
He messes up - sure, but I think Marvel should at least try to give Tony a win every once in awhile. Their fascination of "Tony dooms the world" just make for an unlikable character. In this issue - he comes off as stupid - both present and past selves. How the !@#$ can you forget you build a fail-safe? I mean I admire Spidey being portrayed as smart, but dumbing down a character to make it so - that's bad writing.
The Titanomech...I'm sure I yelled "it's a Gundam!" Enter the mobile suits! Lawl...
I think I've lowered my expectations to believe there is no such thing as GOOD Marvel comic book writing. Sure this is supposed to be the "bad ending" future view but - technically since Peter suggested the failsafe doesn't that mean he'd assume there was some sort of spider-shaped fail-safe thing too when the mobile suits go evil? Exactly how many apocalyptic futures do we have running in 616 now anyways?

Iron Man #500

[leo354.livejournal.com]

Tony slept with Maria Hill! *pukes*

Re: Iron Man #500

[muccamukk]

What?

[schala-kid.livejournal.com]

Haven't been reading Fraction's Iron Man for a long time (I hate how Fraction makes everyone act like major assholes), so I'm not aware as to what happened in this issue (and from the comments I'm reading, I'm glad I didn't buy it).

[marinarusalka.livejournal.com]

I dropped IIM after the "Stark Dissassembled" storyline, and the scans for this issue aren't doing anything to make me rethink that decision. The art is still hideous, and Fraction's Tony is still a one-note caricature of himself. I'll stick to Avengers and Iron Man Legacy for my Tony fix, thanks.

[fictivore.livejournal.com]

Hee, yeah. Iron Man Legacy is pretty good. Read Enter the Mandarin recently and that was awesome as well. Was wondering, is that part of the Legacy series as well, do you know?

Just Fraction is... *yuck*

I am frigging glad someone posted this

[dollam.livejournal.com]

I hate the art I hate the story I hate the cover art... did I tell you that I hate the art?? Why is there no decent frigging panels in this comics? and inks?
And ugh, no one reads Marvel around me. When I start rambling my friends have these sympathetic faces and tell me to drop marvel, because clearly, it's screwing me around.
I have a love/hate and angst relationship going around with marvel, and I've been stuck to the hate and angst for ages now. And to see that this is the hype and one of The comics is like a frigging insult. Clearly, the man of Irony is now with the only irony being that he is made of iron and keeps getting punched around.
I have to confess I am only reading it cause Mandarin is in it. : 9 But reintroducing the Mandarin as an old and haggard man is not going to work. shudders I think I saw long fingernails. I hope I have seen it wrong.

Re: I am frigging glad someone posted this

[fictivore.livejournal.com]

Uhh... sorry bb, but you're not... They really are long. And sorry to say, none of the Mandarin parts are not dominated ugly art. I loved the Mandarin in 'Enter the Mandarin' re-imagination but Fraction seems to have continued from his portrayal in the Mandarin special Annual... That wasn't really to my taste, but if it is for you, then maybe you'll have atleast one bit to like. (^-^)b

[mozzarellaroses.livejournal.com]

I kind of didn't want to read the issue after I posted this:

http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/2694359.html

[fictivore.livejournal.com]

Ah, yes... Fraction also gives us canonical non-con D/S... Why do even need marvel_kink any more, right?

*YUCK!*