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cap_ironman2009-11-25 11:47 pm
sassafras-root.livejournal.com) wrote in cap_ironman2009-11-25 11:47 pm
Entry tags:
IIM #20-Stark Dissasembled
Hello! I mostly lurk because I'm a little shy, but I've been really enjoying this comm a lot. Besides the great fic/art, there's really smart discussions here. I was wondering what everyone's reactions to the latest Iron Man comic that came out today. This comm seems pretty Tony-friendly and can discuss his flaws without the kneejerk "he's a douche and should die" reactions.
Without going into any spoilers, I was really, really disappointed. I was looking forward to this arc after reading Fraction's interviews (I was mixed on World's Most Wanted) and I thought it would be good for the character but this first issue left me kind of cold. Plus, the thing with Pepper just seemed off to me.
What were your opinions, if you got the issue? Does anyone have some hopes for what this arc will do for Tony's character? What do you hope the Tony/Steve reunion scene will be like (I'm afraid to get my hopes up for that, too)?
Without going into any spoilers, I was really, really disappointed. I was looking forward to this arc after reading Fraction's interviews (I was mixed on World's Most Wanted) and I thought it would be good for the character but this first issue left me kind of cold. Plus, the thing with Pepper just seemed off to me.
What were your opinions, if you got the issue? Does anyone have some hopes for what this arc will do for Tony's character? What do you hope the Tony/Steve reunion scene will be like (I'm afraid to get my hopes up for that, too)?
Okay, I can see that
I really think he did do what he thought was right in a lot of cases (Clor aside, because really...), but he's also n record as regretting a lot of things that he did throughout.
Also, at one point, Steve punched Iron Man in the jaw basically without provocation, and Iron Man apologised to Steve. Not saying it's healthy, but he has made it a habit.
Re: Okay, I can see that
And perhaps, he's decided to break this habit. Good for him. This whole tugging of the forelock and bowing and scraping does get old after a while. If this arc has broken him from that habit, well... there's been some good from it after all.
I'd just feel a little better about his noble sacrifice if he wasn't being so god damn smug about screwing everyone over. I can see how that would be a really Tony gesture.
But how is he screwing everyone over? He has given them some advice how to get Osborn, as well as stating his terms and offering them the choice to walk away, or to accept them. He hasn't withheld anything from them at all. He's also aware that feelings are raw and he's taking the chance that Blake might go, "LOL, no."
In addition, by him not apologising (but then this was written while he was D.O.S. - about a year ago, so who knows if his viewpoints have changed) he is taking the risk that although he might come back, he won't have friendships and bonds again. Tony is a man who lives on the emotions of people, good or bad. Their friendship would wound, but he'd get over it.
I do see why people are up in arms. Tony is being strong, and dickish, but he isn't blackmailing people though. He realises that whatever affection they might have had for him is a moot point, but he's still willing to take the risk.
Re: Okay, I can see that
And good for him if he has. But there's been no lead up to that frame of mind. Not now, and not in the period of canon where he recorded that message. I don't want to say that he shouldn't grow out of unhealthy habits, just that this particular change came way, way out of left field for me.
But how is he screwing everyone over?
Sorry. I was unclear, I meant past screwing over.
I so see what you mean though, and what is basically an unconditional surrender of himself could be a very interesting, and very Tony, gesture. And if you wrote that story, I'd probably love it, but the writing on this one just bugs me. To tell you why exactly, I'd have to read it a third time, and I'm not sure I'm willing to do that.
Re: Okay, I can see that
That's what I thought was going on when Osborn was all "Don Blake? Who?" and I really liked it. But the video message just... didn't sell it. Because it didn't seem unconditional anymore.
Oh, okay! I see your point now.
Yes, I agree with this comment. The fact is, Fraction had twelve issues to place a smoking rifle or get the old lampshade out, but he didn't. That's sloppiness on his part right there. Oh Fraction *shakes head*
but the writing on this one just bugs me. To tell you why exactly, I'd have to read it a third time, and I'm not sure I'm willing to do that.
Again, I can understand this point too. Honestly, I'm not trying to be difficult (I'm having this discussion in cap_im and scans_daily), but I must say, I'm rather annoyed at the knee jerk opinions that just end with "Tony is a dick" and I'm like, "So, is this news?" which is why I keep poking at people. I do have my own issues with the story and how it is presented, but it doesn't seem to conflate with what I'm reading at all, so I do wonder if I'm reading it right at all - and no, Fraction's work isn't that deep for layers of meaning either.
I think what gets me here is probably Tony's callousness towards Pepper than anything. Then I'm wondering if I need to unpack my attitudes re: gender politics towards Tony and Pepper but man... that's what really bugs me. What he did to Pepper.