Death of the Dream, NC-17, non-con

[valtyr]

The discussion about Evil Steve reminded me of a fic I wrote a while ago and never posted to the comm.

Title: Death of the Dream
Author: valtyr
Beta: None
Rating: NC-17
Wordcount: 2k
Contents/Warnings/Spoilers: Explicit rape.
Summary: Steve comes back from the dead. Tony's not as happy to see him as he thought he'd be.

Read on AO3. Not kidding about the rape.

If you wrote a dark/evil Steve, maybe link the story in the comments? Would be interesting to see people's takes.

Comments

Re: Well, yeah, except for...

[hohaiyee.livejournal.com]

I think it's this line: "Then the fast rush in and Tony wanted to arch and writhe"

So like, maybe part of it was rape and part of it wasn't.

Isn't being partly raped like being almost pregnant?

[muccamukk]

Tony said no (well, he kicked, shook his head and made protesting noises). He didn't want to have sex. If he said no and didn't and didn't want to have sex (even if he said no and did want to have sex), it's rape.

(Exception: when there are other, mutually agreed upon safe words previously set up for a role-playing kink scenario, which was clearly not the case in this fic).

Steve knew that Tony said no, and still had sex with him. Therefore, in this fic, Steve = a rapist.

The fact that a rapist can sometimes force a pleasurable physical response out of a rape victim, especially in male victims, does not make it any less rape.

At least that's the way it works in Canada's legal code.

Re: Isn't being partly raped like being almost pregnant?

[hohaiyee.livejournal.com]

Okay, the way I read it was, Steve definitely did rape Tony, but parts of it wasn't rape, such as the ending.

Probably what happened with Rhett and Scarlett.

I have neither seen nor read <em>Gone with the Wind</em>

[muccamukk]

My reading that Tony was so deeply traumatised (by having his brain melted/reassembled and having all his friends 100% abandon him and having his best friend come back evil and having said now evil best friend rape him and forcing an unwanted and humiliating physical response out of him) that he pretty much went into shock.

Which I believe was the authorial intent.

YMMV.

[chaos-anomaly.livejournal.com]

I think that's exactly the reason why I'm not completely convinced it was adamant protestation against sex, Tony being in Shock threw me for a loop. (And the rose-tinted glasses, I think my brain didn't want to equate Steve being capable of Rape and therefore Tony must (consciously, subconsciously) want it.)

But now that you brought it up (Tony's mindset and what's he has been through before waking up), I can sort of see the evidence pointing toward actual Rape.

Also, I'm probably thinking more of what Tony would do after the act (see previous comment) that's "clouding" my judgement here.

[muccamukk]

I think, for me, dub con is more something the lines of:
1) Drunk sex where it's unclear that consent can be given.
2) Identity porn stuff. As in not knowing the real identity of the person you're having sex with (though in some states that's also legally rape).
3) One or both parties saying yes, even though they're pretty sure they don't want to have sex.

Dubious consent is unclear consent.

In this case, the consent was very clearly not given. Consent was, in fact, very clearly denied. Repeatedly. That makes it non-con.

The whole point of the story, as I understand it (in that it was brought up as part of discussion of Steve Being Evil), was that Steve had lost his connection to his own moral compass and turned evil. Being evil, he was very capable of rape.

Besides which, even if Tony did want it (even if he was married to Steve for ten years and they'd been engaged in mutually-pleasurable, consenting sex half an hour before), if he said "No," it's still rape.

It took various anti-oppression movements (largely feminist and gay rights-related) hundreds of years to get that legal definition.

[arysteia.livejournal.com]

It took various anti-oppression movements (largely feminist and gay rights-related) hundreds of years to get that legal definition.

*engraves this on our rings, and cries*

[tsukinofaerii.livejournal.com]

So, where would you like your internets delivered? (hugs)

[muccamukk]

Wherever is convenient is fine.

But, dude, I'm running out of ways to say "'No' means 'no'" here.

Re: Isn't being partly raped like being almost pregnant?

[valtyr]

Steve raped Tony. Tony found parts of it physical pleasurable, and he does think about how he wished he didn't.

At the end, Tony is shocky and traumatized, and not really acting rationally.

Gone With the Wind... well, it was written in a different time about a different time, but the book scene seems pretty damn rapey to me, from my modern perspective.

Re: Isn't being partly raped like being almost pregnant?

[arysteia.livejournal.com]

Amen. And NZ too.

Oh, good, rings!

[muccamukk]

Will you marry me?

You could move to Canada... no wait, our government's kind of horrid right now (though we do have same sex marriage)... I could move to New Zealand. I've always been very fond of New Zealand.

Re: Oh, good, rings!

[arysteia.livejournal.com]

I will!

New Zealand is awesome, but unfortunately we have a revolting administration right now too. D: They can't take away our same sex marriage though, and their term will be up in a year. *prepares to campaign HARD for the other guys*