cap_ironman | The Last Rites of Janet Pym and the dumping on Stark, again

THANK YOU!

I love the 'Hello, just walking off with all the important stuff nao. KTNXBAI!' Fuck You-ness of it all but the art...oh god, it is cringeworthy!

In a way I'm glad that I'm only getting the floppies and not the trades for IM, because ew? Art is ugh. The digital shading is ugly and muddy, and there's no luminosity to it at all. I'm wondering why this artist is still getting paid.

Tell me about it. Sometimes I think that the only comic that has been decently digitally coloured is 1602.

The problem I find with the recent Iron Man art is that the inking doesn't fuse well with the colouring. Digital shading can look great (like Adi Granov's art for Extremis) but it just looks out of place when there's bold and solid inking lines. The two styles just aren't... meshing well, AT ALL.

Digital plus ink = BAD!

Granov's still seemed to lack something. I dunno, it's just a tad lifeless.

I liked the story in IM 8 so much I didn't mind the art at all. And on the positive side, the artist draws the cutest Tonkysmirk I've ever seen, pornstache or not. :D

Did anybody notice that -- oh wait, I don't want to spoil... I'd better find a post where we're talking about IM 8.

For the comm?

The fans here might cry though. I cried when I saw the art. It is so fug. It is fug.

I'd love it if you'd upload, if it isn't too much trouble. There are elements in the story -- art aside -- that are very intruiging.

I have it, but my scanner is hooked up to my other computer and that makes uploading a whole days-long ordeal. :P

and done.

I have yet to have the hard copy in my hands. It's like, all torrents... which isn't as good as having the book in my hand.

Awesome, yay! Thank you!

I'm so over Tony hate. I'm really over it.

Dear Bendis: Continuing to sacrifice other characters' personalities for the sake of making Tony even more hated and woobie IS BAD WRITING. Hank completely losing his shit over Jan's death? Maybe breaking down into tears and agonized screaming in the middle of the eulogy? Totally could see it. He's never been the most emotionally stable, and for all their problems, he loved her. Hank going all RAGE on someone else in the middle of Jan's funeral? NO, dammit.

God, I'm tired of this.

Carol (I think it's Carol, I only stole and reimaged the stuff onto my free account) gave hank two-three years of low down and drama in the space of probably a thirty minute ride. Hank is back, only to find that the love of his life (I think so) is gone, and depending on who tells it, Stark still comes off badly.

I can see both sides of the narrative in this one.

But yeah, the Tony hate is tired. Stewth.

Yeah, it's Carol, because they mentioned her in earlier pages, but I'm still not feeling the point behind the rage. Breakdown, sure, rage, no. Added up with everything else written so far, it's just another link in the "let's line up all the Marvel characters to have their turn at a groin kick" and it feels stupidly forced.

THIS.

While I could see someone snapping like this, the cumulative effect is less 'Oh, look at how much Hank is suffering' and more
Writer's Cheap Shot hits Tony Stark for 10,000. (crit) (9,999 overkill)
Writer has slain Tony Stark!

Like, on one side, it's all, "FFS, they are dumping on Stark again?! " on the other side, I'm like, "Hank's been away for the best part of two years, and he's getting a truckload of information in a short amount of time, and he's going to lash out. " Especially since Carol seems to be sympathetic towards Tony's position, and she'd just spell things out with no agenda, compared to say... Thor, or any one who opposed the SHRA. Emotions are running high, and Pym's gonna lash out. In addition, isn't Pym supposedly on meds? I'd take this behaviour from him, more than say, Hank, you know?

But yeah, I see your point, and am on your side. Really.

And I totally see yours, and I think it all comes down to crappy writing and whatever fapfest the writer is having.

And Thor showing up? Was where I really had to step back and say 'fuck it. This isn't even about Hank anymore, this is the writer applying a souped-up nutshot to Tony. I'm done.' (okay, not Thor showing up, but the manner in which he did.) It really pisses me off that this could have been so poignant and beautiful if people would just stop using Tony as the universal whipping boy. Also if they stopped using that crap color palatte. Eurgh.

I always mix up Hawkeye (the name) with Hank.

And Thor showing up? Was where I really had to step back and say 'fuck it. This isn't even about Hank anymore, this is the writer applying a souped-up nutshot to Tony. I'm done.'

LOL. Considering the fact that Thor wanted to administer Stark an ass whooping and was only told to hold strain by Rogers, I'm half relieved that he took off without further incident. But yeah, that moment came off a little pissy- nay, a LOT pissy.

It's amazing that Tony has been like, the centre of four arcs in over two years. I really think they need to give Stark some room to heal though. Go Tony, form a new company (although potential stake holders might be thin on the ground). Just... go, become a rainmaker, get the money and run.

Really... I'd almost prefer that Thor threw down the gauntlet instead of doing his little passive-aggressive dance. A 'you, me, outside after this is over' would have been much less pissy than 'we'll go mourn in PEACE now (because Stark is here and is dishonoring Jan's memory).' It's like a catfight that got blown to epic proportions.

Tony totally does need to catch a break, get his life together, and get back up on his horse. Soon. We can only hope.

and Tony came out of that fight limping. There would be no honour in a God literally frying Tony to pieces, and alas, he promised Steve. Remember in Thor #11 when he was like, "Steven, if thou wishest, I shall hunt the one who had thou slain, and slew him on thy behalf." and Steve was all, "No, my friend. I'm cold, it's dark, and I wish no more war."

So Thor will honour the world of his shield brother, but will be giving Tony side eye and what for for a long time.

This will run and run and run.

Oh, I'm aware of that. I just meant that it seemed incredibly catty the current way it was written and even Thor going all alpha male would have been infinitely better than acting like a passive-aggressive teen. It really doesn't suit him.

This writer is seriously punting a lot of my favorites way, way out of character.

He's probably also pretty angry about being held captive for years and no one realizing it wasn't him.

But then, the Avengers have battled the Skrulls before, they know how they roll. It happens, you know? Tony has been under mind control twice and no one actually knew.

Yeah, I'm in two minds about this, 'cause I like the way it conveys Hank's total overwhelmed-ness, and I can totally see him swinging between hysteria and near-catatonia. I just can't work out how he gets to "You killed Janet!" I mean, it's Carol in the car giving him the info on the last three years, and she was pro-Reg with Tony, so if anyone's going to give a fairly even-handed summary of events, it's got to be her, right?

And I just keep wondering if I'm missing something when people try to blame Tony for OMG!everything! Because it's not like Tony is the only major pro-Reg player. It's not like Tony is the only major pro-Reg player who wasn't a skrull. And it's not like Tony isn't human - even the best strategists can't make accurate plans of action when they're missing important information (like, y'know, there are skrulls around?!). I swear, at some point, one of the characters will blame Tony for the way it rained yesterday when the weathermen said it would be sunny - and characters and fans alike, everyone (except for this comm *g*) will agree!

...I think Tony's situation at the moment reminds me of when the Scoobies chucked Buffy out of her own house after some of the Potentials died in battle. Because apparently when you put your life on the line in battle after battle, if anyone gets killed it's *got* to be the result of incompetent leadership, not simply a sad fact of warfare. It's a reaction that annoys me in fiction and real life - a sort of feeling of betrayed entitlement. And I suppose the superhero community as a whole is still feeling mentally bruised by having to choose sides and fight each other... but it still feels so out of character for people who have for years/decades accepted that one day they might not come back from a fight, to be blaming the secret invasion casualties on Tony alone.

Yeah, I'm in two minds about this, 'cause I like the way it conveys Hank's total overwhelmed-ness, and I can totally see him swinging between hysteria and near-catatonia. I just can't work out how he gets to "You killed Janet!" I mean, it's Carol in the car giving him the info on the last three years, and she was pro-Reg with Tony, so if anyone's going to give a fairly even-handed summary of events, it's got to be her, right?

True. Despite Carol's frustrations with Stark at him playing God (she did say something about the world would crucify him eventually in The Ultron Initiative), yeah, she'd be pretty even handed, but one could say that Stark was the one that pushed the SHRA into action, and literally flicked the first domino re: the events of the past two years.

It's just unfortunate that Tony Stark has been the face of all the events for the past two years - he was behind SHRA, the Cap thing wasn't his fault, but happened on his watch, Word War Hulk, etc. It's just unfortunate that he's been the face, so yeah, it's easy to pile blame on him. Even in the face of a sympathetic party (Carol), Tony still comes off as the man behind it all. So... yeah.

Because apparently when you put your life on the line in battle after battle, if anyone gets killed it's *got* to be the result of incompetent leadership, not simply a sad fact of warfare.

Yeah, this. Stark's problem is (was) that he had a hand (indirectly or no) in Captain America's death, and in societies eyes, they aren't thinking about people dying as a result of a Super hero war, they're thinking about the guy who supposedly pulled the trigger.

it still feels so out of character for people who have for years/decades accepted that one day they might not come back from a fight, to be blaming the secret invasion casualties on Tony alone.

Yes and no. Tony Stark doesn't really get that much love in Marvel U, even before Civil War. When Wanda does her mind control, people think that he's gone on the drink, and only Steve believes him. When Tony went rouge in the 90s, people were prepared to believe the worst in him before finding out why. Granted some of his actions in CW and beyond have been dodgy, but Tony has never been afraid to get his hands dirty in a way that might sit wrong with some heroes.

Oy.

I liked this. I thought Hank's reaction was understandable. He's a man going through a lot of grief and pain... like total and utter overkill because he's woken up to discover that so many important people are dead.

Marvel REALLY loves dumping on Tony, but I think it was different here but it was Hank just exploding in grief. AND THEN THOR CAME AND WAS SO AWESOME, YAY!

PS: Tony's slowly on the path to awesome again in the latest Iron Man. And the pornstache is back.

>:/ *<-- fierce angry face* Stop bashing on Tony. This is NOT. COOL. MARVEL. He did what he thought was RIGHT. And I for one totally stand behind him.

In light of Spiderman selling out his marriage to Mephisto, at least Tony has had the courage of his convictions to look fate in the eye and spit in it. In addition, Tony isn't shirking from his actions, he's dealing with 'em.

Good on him, to wit. Good on him.

I completely agree. Tony is just doing what he thinks is best, whether it kills him inside or not. And he is taking full responsibility knowing he would be hated for it. You cannot disrespect a man who does that.

What's this from? Iron Man, Mighty Avengers, something else?

It's from the latest Mighty Avengers.

Thanks.

It's completely apparent to me now that Marvel has zero respect for Wasp as a character, and they probably have no respect for any female characters either, and hey, they can portray this crap all they want because this is probably the closest they'll ever get to boobies.

I could see Hank accosting Tony after the service and dumping blame and rage* on him, but at the podium? Really? Even for Hank at his craziest that seems pretty tacky and self indulgent. Way to honor Jan's life, Hank.

*I'm still not clear on why Tony is getting the blame for Jan's death, apart from the fact that he was head of SHIELD when the invasion went down. I read in the intor to IM 8 that even Tony blames himself. What am I missing? Is Dr Strange blaming himself for the invasion and Jan's death too? Because as SS, it was kind of his job to be on the lookout, too.

I have to say, the art on this is really pretty, and the montages are touching and gorgeously drawn. That's Cheung, right? I'm a big fan his work.

In conclusion, RIP Jan ~~until we find out that you were teleported to a planet of benevolent aliens who were able to reverse your plague bombiness. I'll miss you, sniff.~~

I just think Hank got a lot of information to digest in like, a 30 minute ride. He's come back to find the love of his life dead, and no matter how neutral Carol might have been (and remember Carol was on Tony's side), Stark has been the face of all the stuff that's gone down for the past two/three years.

In terms of Jan's death - yeah, I've been rereading that issue, and it's still unclear, but long story short - Stark should have been watching the fort. According to the POTUS in the comic, Stark was the one at the helm when this clusterf**k occurred. I think the Avengers have brought into that, and emotions are still raw all around.

I think Marvel just needs two years of stories, no more special events for a while. Just looking at the art recap (which I'm impressed with, btw), I just feel fatigued and I'm not even Tony sodding Stark.

Yeah: I was at the local comics dealer the other day and got into a bit of a conversation about Marvel, and the phrase "event fatigue" was voiced several times. It's not just the Tony supporters, it's practically everybody.

This crossover stuff is really starting to wear the fans down. They need to lay off it for a while.

Short of Marvel Adventures and the Marvel Superheroes line, you're kicking rocks if you want an entry into Marvel 616 and the DCU. I mean, it's getting down right impenetrable now. Everything has to be at least a six issue story arc (Invaders! Avengers is going to be what, a 12 parter?) and you literally have to commit to a story that might not deliver the goods in the long run.

Both Marvel and DC need to streamline their universe and just build good stories instead of the 'shock and awe' of special events. It's wearing.

They also need to add more hope to the regular verses.

I am seriously growing more and more tired of the dark and gloom that seems to be swalling both companies. It's like they think that the only kind of stories are the ones where the heroes lose and even if they win, they still end up losing.

I mean, there was a time if you wanted 'dark' Marvel titles, you'd look to anything Daredevil, Punisher or Wolverine. Now, it's like, drum un stag everywhere. It's one thing to have a dark patch in the heroes' lives, but this unrelenting gloom is harshing my mellow.

In terms of DC, if you wanted gloom, Batman and anything to do with him. Now, even Superman! bright superman! is getting on the emo, to rahtid.

re no more events- at the Dublin Comic Con last month (completely in more!love with attendee Olivier Coipel, by the by. He needs to draw everything) C.B. Cebulski said there's not going to be a giant 'event' next year, more smaller things involving just a couple of titles (like DC have going on with, I think, Green Lantern), some pretty much dealing with the SI fallout (like Avengers Reunited), and all a bit more intimate and character driven.

Which will be aces is Bendis can just keep his fingers out of it all. I am tired of him now, primarily due to the ridiculous Tony hate.

Seconded... Marvel has official declared this the month of Thwack ye Stark!, I only wonder why there's still two people supporting him ;P
Misunderstandings, marvelish for 'always a good plot'.

Ah, wouldn't it be funny if Kitty (X-Men) and Janet came back on the same spaceship XD? Dux machine at it's max? Everybody knows they'll be back, they even brought Mockingbird back for crying out loud - who do they think they're fooling?
'Death' is just a synonym for very long vaccation ;)

Thanks for sharing, but I really start to *growl* get not so nice feelings towards the marvel writers - will you stop it!!
We all get it that Tony's been a baaaad boy, and that everybody is blaming him... Only to realize sooner or later how wrong they were, for there's not an ounce brain in the logic of Pym's or anybody's rant, just overboiled emotions and frustration *lalala* ...
*sigh* Do we have to ride the dead horse until the next arc here :__:?
Waiting for the next catastrophe to strike and but them together again like *zap* magic - can't there be more talks and interactions-
And can somebody please give me chocolate so I stop ranting and go back to reading nice things instead of lamenting ^^°°
*munch*

Tony is coming back, and has literally painted a target on his back re: Osborn. Oy.

That IM issue confused me a tiny bit though, Extremis is gone, but he still has the data? Not blowing his brain out? :?
But I so <3 the semi-suicidal line of 'doesn't get hands on it ...erasing the data' - this SO calls for a giant whump-fest-fic for Tony =)
*squeal*

I HATE THE PORNO 'STACHE SO MUCH!
And why dear, sweet, lovable Jesus does Osborn look like Richard Nixon?

Looking all van Dyke and ish. I think you're in the wrong post, mate.

Sorry, I'm talking about IM 8. I forgot to specify. He's super hot all up in this issue.

Y'know, I readily admit that Tony's made some choices and done some things that he may have thought at the time to be good or necessary, but that from our perspective are just wrong. And he should be required to face the consequences (because I approve of stories in which people face the unintended consequences of their actions, and I disapprove of stories where the writers flinch from following through).

So why is the stuff brought up in-universe the stuff he isn't actually culpable for?

I mean, yes, Hank has just had everything from "No more mutants" on forward dropped on him at once, and it makes perfect sense for him to be angry and lashing out, but...he's yelling at *Tony*, who is only responsible for Jan's death if we assume that failure to be omniscient is a valid charge, yet he seems fine with Thor, who actually did kill her. Not that he's guilty or responsible either, but you'd think he'd be at least as good a target. But that would not be consistent with "Everyone Hates Tony ~~Week~~ ~~Month~~ Year".

What I would've done with this scene is had Hank blame, not Tony, but everyone. It would be so much more moving for me if he stood up there and said, "How could you?! You let this happen, all of you! You and your stupid, stupid war! You killed her!" That would choke me up, and then I wouldn't feel like I was being forced into considering Tony's guilt or innocence in exclusion of every single other character in 616. And then *everyone* could look guilty, which is how it should be, because everyone is to some degree at fault.

What I would've done with this scene is had Hank blame, not Tony, but everyone. It would be so much more moving for me if he stood up there and said, "How could you?! You let this happen, all of you! You and your stupid, stupid war! You killed her!"

Motto. What with the squabbling, everyone dropped the ball, and weakened themselves to the invading horde. There's enough blame to go around - Thor leaving earth because he 'just wanted to be left alone', Carol going along with Tony's plans like a good little soldier instead of calling him out when she had her doubts (she did have some). The team mates not trusting each other and just not having some communication protocol.

There's enough blame to be going on with.

Y'know, I readily admit that Tony's made some choices and done some things that he may have thought at the time to be good or necessary, but that from our perspective are just wrong. And he should be required to face the consequences (because I approve of stories in which people face the unintended consequences of their actions, and I disapprove of stories where the writers flinch from following through).

Oh yeah, I do like Stark, although he can be a little shit at times. But you can't be the man he is in the business that he does without being a bit of a shark. If you want a woobie, cuddle with Steve or Peter.

What I would've done with this scene is had Hank blame, not Tony, but everyone. It would be so much more moving for me if he stood up there and said, "How could you?! You let this happen, all of you! You and your stupid, stupid war! You killed her!"

*SLOW BUILDING CLAP*

DAMN straight!

I did like Simon's gaping disbelief. It's like he's the only person in the Marvel-verse who doesn't have his irrational hate-on for somebody these days.

I just...LOGIC please! Can we have our superheroes be just a teensy bit rational? Maybe just smart enough to feel like maybe if something bad goes down, they can actually take care of it like the seasoned super-powered hero-types they are? Because lately I'm not seeing it.

And I love how it's all Tony's fault, but everybody is just fine with Reed, who was just as pro-reg and equally influential on the world stage for being the leader of the Fantastic Four. But he figured out how to detect Skrulls, so he's off the hook, I guess.

YES. That would have made some emotional sense for Hank and been moving for the reader, too. Good call.

IT WASN'T TONY YOU FUCKTARD IT WAS THOR!!
::nashes teeth::
THOR was the one who killed Jan, tony had NOTHING TO DO WITH IT
WHY THE HELL ISNT ANYONE RAGING ON HIM??!

Fuck you Marvel, fuck you.
This is rediculous. Just because you don't like Tony doesn't mean you get to turn him into a fucking scapegoat for every single thing that goes wrong in Marvel U. If the sun doesn't rise or if the train is late are they going to blame Tony for that too?

::wanders off to punch wall::

If I had known that this post would have aroused such dangerous passions, I'd have thought twice before clicking the enter button.

it's fine. I've been stewing about this for a while and this issue was just the last straw, you know?
At least I still have fanfiction and MA:A

WHAT???? Hank's been a FUCKING SKrullsdjfsod since the House of M?

WTF?! They said SI's got nothing to do with SW!!!

It' like Marvel wanna say 'People who lead the SHRA were bad guys, save for few idiots like Reed or Tony'

Then what's the purpose of SIVIL WAR? Where's the theme of, 'What is true justice?' 'Difference in point of view' I think SW was about that not every story is 'Superheroes go kick-asses of villains', That there is no 'Bad guys' or 'Good guys'in some wars. Isn't that the cool part of SW?

And why is hank SOOOO calm with THOR?? If he's blaiming at everybody(and Tony)"How could you do this?", hell, shouldn't he be raging at THOR?

...if I was Ant-Man, I wouldn't argue with the man with a hammer.

It does kind of look as though someone's just up and said, "Look, we know you're angry. Just blame Stark. Everyone else does! *slips on wet floor* Damn you, Stark! *shakes fist*"

...but, you know, less silly.

Ooh, Thor is pretty. Blondes! With long hair! My secret weakness!

...What, you were expecting passion? There's plenty of it already. Nothing's really permanent in comics. I mean, they brought Mockingbird back. Eventually blaming Tony for everything will turn out to be one of Osborn's plots or something, attention will shift, and maybe then he'll angst.

The Last Rites of Janet Pym and the dumping on Stark, again

no subject

FUG, art is fug for IM #8

Re: FUG, art is fug for IM #8

Re: FUG, art is fug for IM #8

Re: FUG, art is fug for IM #8

no subject

You want me to upload the pictures from IM 8

Re: You want me to upload the pictures from IM 8

Done.

Re: Done.

no subject

no subject

I guess I can understand Pym's rage in the middle of the funeral

Re: I guess I can understand Pym's rage in the middle of the funeral

Re: I guess I can understand Pym's rage in the middle of the funeral

Like I said, I can understand both sides

Re: Like I said, I can understand both sides

D'oh! Clint, I meant Clint (instead of Hank)

Re: D'oh! Clint, I meant Clint (instead of Hank)

I dunno, IM and Thor have rumbled before

Re: I dunno, IM and Thor have rumbled before

Re: I guess I can understand Pym's rage in the middle of the funeral

True, but he should have called out everyone too

Re: I guess I can understand Pym's rage in the middle of the funeral

Motto!

no subject

no subject

I'll say this

Re: I'll say this

no subject

I beg your pardon

Re: I beg your pardon

Wardrobe Malfuction

no subject

That's a good question.

Re: That's a good question.

Yeah, you can't even be a casual reader anymore

Re: Yeah, you can't even be a casual reader anymore

Oh yeah, that's a point.

Re: That's a good question.

no subject

no subject

The new IM#8 is okay

Re: The new IM#8 is okay

no subject

Huh? Tony's facial hair is working here

Re: Huh? Tony's facial hair is working here

no subject

This.

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

Oh dear,

Re: Oh dear,

no subject

no subject

no subject